http://httpd.com/press/defense.html:
Eugene Kashpureff's Defense Fund
To Contribute To Eugene Kashpureff's Defense Fund by Wire Transfer:
To: EUGENE KASHPUREFF DEFENCE FUND C/O: The ROYAL BANK OF CANADA 1 Main Street North BRAMPTON, Ontario L6X 1M8
TRANSIT NO: 00482 ACCOUNT NO: 100-274-0
http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,16763,00.html:
Fund created for AlterNIC founder By Janet Kornblum November 24, 1997, 2:10 p.m. PT
Jailed AlterNIC cofounder Eugene Kashpureff is strapped for cash and his business partner has set up a legal fund for him.
Diane Boling is asking people to contribute to the Eugene Kashpureff Defense Fund at the Royal Bank of Canada.
TeleVirtually Yours, Bob Allisat Director, World TeleVirtual Network http://www.wtv.net PO Box 191 St E Toronto Canada M6H 4E2 tor@wtv.net (416) 534-1999 http://www.wtv.net/portfolio.html
On Mon, Nov 24, 1997 at 06:42:35PM -0800, Paul A Vixie wrote:
How much do I have to pay to keep him in jail forever?
That was MY question :-) -. -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost
On Mon, 24 Nov 1997, Karl Denninger wrote:
On Mon, Nov 24, 1997 at 06:42:35PM -0800, Paul A Vixie wrote:
How much do I have to pay to keep him in jail forever?
That was MY question :-)
As much as we all know the guy is not going to get a fair trial, the concept of an anti-defence fund is a novel one. Marc.
-. -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost
On Mon, Nov 24, 1997 Paul A Vixie wrote:
How much do I have to pay to keep him in jail forever?
On Mon, 24 Nov 1997, Karl Denninger wrote:
That was MY question :-)
At 11:14 PM, Marc Hurst wrote:
As much as we all know the guy is not going to get a fair trial, the concept of an anti-defence fund is a novel one.
Let's not forget that everyone attempted to profit in their own way from Eugene's devil dare and gutsy Alternic pioneering. And, all joking aside, understand that if things do not go "our" way, CORE is successfully rammed down our throats and none of the schemes to counteract IANA pan out there will be a lot more people in jail with Eugene. And it is up to those with similar views and the resources to assist others who actually do the fighting. That's how revolutions worked in history as in our times. Support your local DNS Freedom fighter or there won't be any more. Or was all those past words just hot air and bullship? TeleVirtually Yours, Bob Allisat Director, World TeleVirtual Network http://www.wtv.net PO Box 191 St E Toronto Canada M6H 4E2 tor@wtv.net (416) 534-1999 http://www.wtv.net/portfolio.html
"Everyone" didn't profit from this stunt; most of us lost something. Either directly in InterNIC and some net users cases, and those of us who had to run around un-doing the vulnerability, or indirectly in that his stunt redirected quite a bit of legitimate debate into flame wars over a dumb publicity stunt instead. -george william herbert gherbert@crl.com not speaking for, or employed by, crl.
At 1:05 PM -0800 11/25/97, George Herbert wrote:
"Everyone" didn't profit from this stunt; most of us lost something. Either directly in InterNIC and some net users cases, and those of us who had to run around un-doing the vulnerability, or indirectly in that his stunt redirected quite a bit of legitimate debate into flame wars over a dumb publicity stunt instead.
We gained the first direct action to protest the domination of the namespace. More will follow this time directed at the CORE conspiracy as well as others. *Unless* there are overt moves to negotiation, consensus and settlement. All of which must satisfy all parties not just a handful. There will be more protests and we must all support those who engage in these activities on our behalf until justice is served. TeleVirtually Yours, Bob Allisat Director, World TeleVirtual Network http://www.wtv.net PO Box 191 St E Toronto Canada M6H 4E2 tor@wtv.net (416) 534-1999 http://www.wtv.net/portfolio.html TeleVirtually Yours, Bob Allisat Director, World TeleVirtual Network http://www.wtv.net PO Box 191 St E Toronto Canada M6H 4E2 tor@wtv.net (416) 534-1999 http://www.wtv.net/portfolio.html
From: Bob Allisat <tor@wtv.net>
At 1:05 PM -0800 11/25/97, George Herbert wrote:
"Everyone" didn't profit from this stunt; most of us lost something. Either directly in InterNIC and some net users cases, and those of us who had to run around un-doing the vulnerability, or indirectly in that his stunt redirected quite a bit of legitimate debate into flame wars over a dumb publicity stunt instead.
We gained the first direct action to protest the domination of the namespace. More will follow this time directed at the CORE conspiracy as well as others. *Unless* there are overt moves to negotiation, consensus and settlement. All of which must satisfy all parties not just a handful. There will be more protests and we must all support those who engage in these activities on our behalf until justice is served.
It is exactly this type of confrontational, paranoia-inducing approach to the problem that has caused most of the problems with working towards real netwide consensus. It's not suprising you can't see it, but it's blindingly clear to me... I put work into some back channel discussions that you bozos managed to kill dead. You are not productive of solutions, you are counterproductive, actively damaging to progress. The "protest" created an environment where compromise became harder and in fact did not happen. We all lost. The only winners were a few people's egos, and one of those people is now going to go to jail for it. Trading ego boosts for real progress on the issues is not my idea of problem solving, and until you stop making that mistake you are a roadblock. -george william herbert gherbert@crl.com
So how is the new setup going to stop this dribble? I'm starting to automatically delete NANOG messages and I'm afraid I'm going to miss something important. At 04:51 PM 25-11-97 +0000, Bob Allisat wrote:
At 1:05 PM -0800 11/25/97, George Herbert wrote:
"Everyone" didn't profit from this stunt; most of us lost something. Either directly in InterNIC and some net users cases, and those of us who had to run around un-doing the vulnerability, or indirectly in that his stunt redirected quite a bit of legitimate debate into flame wars over a dumb publicity stunt instead.
We gained the first direct action to protest the domination of the namespace. More will follow this time directed at the CORE conspiracy as well as others. *Unless* there are overt moves to negotiation, consensus and settlement. All of
Regards, -- Martin Hannigan hannigan@xcom.net Director of Data Networks V:617.500.0108 XCOM Technologies, INC. F:617.500.0002 The leading Carrier for ISP's http://www.xcom.net
On Wed, Nov 26, 1997 at 08:38:00AM -0800, Randy Bush wrote:
I'm starting to automatically delete NANOG messages and I'm afraid I'm going to miss something important.
You're kidding, right?
Threads on this list have a historical tendency to drift far from the original subject and Subject:. I've always wondered why, given that there is a higher proportion of old-timers here than mosts lists. -- David Carmean <dlc@avtel.net> Avtel Communications, Santa Barbara, CA +1-805-730-7740 Opinions herein are those of the author only, unless otherwise noted "Karma Police, arrest this man!" --Radiohead
On Tue, 25 Nov 1997, Bob Allisat wrote:
Let's not forget that everyone attempted to profit in their own way from Eugene's devil dare and gutsy Alternic pioneering. And, all joking aside, understand that if things do not go "our" way, CORE is successfully rammed down our throats and none of the schemes to counteract IANA pan out there will be a lot more people in jail with Eugene. And it is up to those with similar views and the resources to assist others who actually do the fighting.
That's how revolutions worked in history as in our times. Support your local DNS Freedom fighter or there won't be any more. Or was all those past words just hot air and bullship?
There were customers that asked us to point our DNS servers to Alternic, but I refused because I didn't want to hand over control to the namespace to one guy that I didn't know, had no authority to run it, and appeared to be in it for a profit. The InterNIC stunt he pulled entirely justified my refusal. Personally, I think that was the last thing he should have done if he hoped for any support, since it gave people who were wanting to show that he couldn't be trusted ammunition they couldn't get any other way. I can understand that he was frustrated because he wasn't getting his way, but the method he chose to express that frustration violated the trust of those who (foolishly) pointed their DNS servers at his root. I see your posts on the GTLD list as well, and frankly I don't want non-profit and mom & pop companies running DNS servers that I and my customers depend on. I want someone who can be trusted to not violate my trust because they have financial committments to meet to stockholders etc, and can't afford to make such mistakes. John Tamplin Traveller Information Services jat@Traveller.COM 2104 West Ferry Way 205/883-4233x7007 Huntsville, AL 35801
On Mon, Nov 24, 1997 at 11:14:28PM -0500, Marc Hurst wrote:
On Mon, 24 Nov 1997, Karl Denninger wrote:
On Mon, Nov 24, 1997 at 06:42:35PM -0800, Paul A Vixie wrote:
How much do I have to pay to keep him in jail forever?
That was MY question :-)
As much as we all know the guy is not going to get a fair trial, the concept of an anti-defence fund is a novel one.
Marc.
Actually, I do believe he will get a fair trial. While I'm quite the cynic, I don't believe that our justice system is THAT screwed up. I said at the time that I believed his actions were felonious. He laughed it off. But the bottom line is that tampering with things like this is like tampering with the phone switches that make up the US phone network - its not funny, and it is criminal, even if its not done with evil intent. In this case, it WAS done with malice - Eugene has stated as such. He has said on mailing lists and elsewhere that he was driven by outrage. Civil disobedience, a category into which this act might fall, always includes doing what you're going to do OPENLY and taking the consequences without complaint. If in fact Eugene was trying to make a political statement rather than screw with NSI, he certainly hasn't followed those basic credos relating to that type of activity. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost
Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net) wrote:
Actually, I do believe he will get a fair trial. While I'm quite the cynic, I don't believe that our justice system is THAT screwed up.
I said at the time that I believed his actions were felonious. He laughed it off. But the bottom line is that tampering with things like this is like tampering with the phone switches that make up the US phone network - its not funny, and it is criminal, even if its not done with evil intent.
In this case, it WAS done with malice - Eugene has stated as such. He has said on mailing lists and elsewhere that he was driven by outrage.
Civil disobedience, a category into which this act might fall, always includes doing what you're going to do OPENLY and taking the consequences without complaint. If in fact Eugene was trying to make a political statement rather than screw with NSI, he certainly hasn't followed those basic credos relating to that type of activity.
He certainly has. Do you think anger isn't a very legitimate motivation for protest? The guy had been slowly working for way too long with no results. Nul movement. Minimal support. It seemed to be Kashpureff's only alternative to act. Something significant others should learn to do BTW. Alternic has always been mired in an amazing amount of organizational lethargy. Maybe This action of Eugene's will break the pattern. But I'm not holding my breath on that one. It is up to supporters of the New free Top Level Domains *not* willing to do the trench work to ante up and support their own cause. No matter how imperfectly - Eugene furthered your cause. Or are you all planning to wank out and get bought off somewhere along the Benedict Arnold line? Sounds like it, eh? I hope not. Eugene talked the talk *AND* walked the walk. None of you other people have. So pay up. Or shut up. Freedom is freedom. And it has often has a high price. Pay it or lose it. There will be many more who may choose to follow Eugene in the months and years to come. You who have been dragging your heels and delaying everything must stop and take up the struggle. And it will be a long struggle by the look of things among the so-called "Alternic" as well as the "CORE" crowds. We might have to ditch the whole lot of them. A long struggle with ZERO support. If that is what lies ahead so be it. If people of good will and liberty can see to admiting past errors and redoubling their efforts *TODAY* so be it. It all hangs in the air waiting to be unleashed. Don't Tread On Us.
Eugene Kashpureff's Defense Fund
To Contribute To Eugene Kashpureff's Legal Defense Fund by Wire Transfer:
To: THE EUGENE KASHPUREFF LEGAL DEFENCE FUND C/O: The ROYAL BANK OF CANADA 1 Main Street North BRAMPTON, Ontario L6X 1M8 Tel:(905)874-4800 Fax:(905)874-4835 Royal Direct: 1-800-769-2511
TRANSIT NO: 00482 ACCOUNT NO: 100-274-0
If contributing by check or money order, Please include the Transit and Account numbers on the check or money order. Thank You! More info at: <http://httpd.com/press/defense.html>
TeleVirtually Yours, Bob Allisat Director, World TeleVirtual Network http://www.wtv.net PO Box 191 St E Toronto Canada M6H 4E2 tor@wtv.net (416) 534-1999 http://www.wtv.net/portfolio.html
Please Third Request I do not want any more discussion on this issue. William Church iwar@iwar.org
On Tue, 25 Nov 1997, Bob Allisat wrote:
Eugene talked the talk *AND* walked the walk. None of you other people have. So pay up. Or shut up. Freedom is freedom. And it has often has a high price. Pay it or lose it. There will be many more who may choose to follow Eugene in the months and years to come. You who have been dragging your heels and delaying
Eugene is not a freedom fighter or a patriot or anything like that.He is a fool, and a stupid fool at that. The only thing that he accomplished by his act was a bit of ego stroking and a lot of grief for the rest of the community.
I wrote:
Eugene talked the talk *AND* walked the walk. None of you other people have. So pay up. Or shut up. Freedom is freedom. And it has often has a high price. Pay it or lose it. There will be many more who may choose to follow Eugene in the months and years to come. You who have been dragging your heels and delaying
Geoff White replied:
Eugene is not a freedom fighter or a patriot or anything like that.He is a fool, and a stupid fool at that. The only thing that he accomplished by his act was a bit of ego stroking and a lot of grief for the rest of the community.
We shall see what happens in the days and months and years ahead. Only time will tell who is right. What Kashpureff did was imperfect. But what everyone else does is sweet phuck all. TeleVirtually Yours, Bob Allisat Director, World TeleVirtual Network http://www.wtv.net PO Box 191 St E Toronto Canada M6H 4E2 tor@wtv.net (416) 534-1999 http://www.wtv.net/portfolio.html
Misdirected intent is no excuse to break the law, networking is A community based on unspoken trust between various responsible entities and that trust was violated and actions partaken in were criminal by the shown intent of the diversion of content of information flow. Hopefully in the future people will see their misdirected rage as more harmful in the face of ignorant politcians and media types, and that using the system of lawyers and regulatory bodies is more appropriate in achieving A means to an end within the community. Henry R. Linneweh Karl Denninger wrote:
On Mon, Nov 24, 1997 at 11:14:28PM -0500, Marc Hurst wrote:
On Mon, 24 Nov 1997, Karl Denninger wrote:
On Mon, Nov 24, 1997 at 06:42:35PM -0800, Paul A Vixie wrote:
How much do I have to pay to keep him in jail forever?
That was MY question :-)
As much as we all know the guy is not going to get a fair trial, the concept of an anti-defence fund is a novel one.
Marc.
Actually, I do believe he will get a fair trial. While I'm quite the cynic, I don't believe that our justice system is THAT screwed up.
I said at the time that I believed his actions were felonious. He laughed it off. But the bottom line is that tampering with things like this is like tampering with the phone switches that make up the US phone network - its not funny, and it is criminal, even if its not done with evil intent.
In this case, it WAS done with malice - Eugene has stated as such. He has said on mailing lists and elsewhere that he was driven by outrage.
Civil disobedience, a category into which this act might fall, always includes doing what you're going to do OPENLY and taking the consequences without complaint. If in fact Eugene was trying to make a political statement rather than screw with NSI, he certainly hasn't followed those basic credos relating to that type of activity.
-- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost
-- ¢4i1å
At 6:42 PM -0800 11/24/97, Paul A Vixie wrote:
How much do I have to pay to keep him in jail forever?
Hmmm... A question we may be asking about you, your BIND monopoly and the way you've been a co-conspirator in all these monopoly moves. Seems like Paulie doesn't want anyone in his sandbox. Can Paulie spell "anti-trust"? TeleVirtually Yours, Bob Allisat Director, World TeleVirtual Network http://www.wtv.net PO Box 191 St E Toronto Canada M6H 4E2 tor@wtv.net (416) 534-1999 http://www.wtv.net/portfolio.html
Oh, Christ. Not again. This never ending argument about BIND doesn't have any place on NANOG. Please take it somewhere else. On Tue, 25 Nov 1997, Bob Allisat wrote:
At 6:42 PM -0800 11/24/97, Paul A Vixie wrote:
How much do I have to pay to keep him in jail forever?
Hmmm... A question we may be asking about you, your BIND monopoly and the way you've been a co-conspirator in all these monopoly moves. Seems like Paulie doesn't want anyone in his sandbox. Can Paulie spell "anti-trust"?
TeleVirtually Yours,
Bob Allisat
Director, World TeleVirtual Network http://www.wtv.net PO Box 191 St E Toronto Canada M6H 4E2 tor@wtv.net (416) 534-1999 http://www.wtv.net/portfolio.html
-- Regards, Tom ________________________________________________________________________ | "The Egg Domain" | "An engineer without a manager, | | tomg@egg.com | is like a fish without a bicycle." | | http://www.egg.com/ | | | | |
On Tue, Nov 25, 1997 at 07:19:51AM -0800, Tom Glover wrote:
Oh, Christ. Not again. This never ending argument about BIND doesn't have any place on NANOG. Please take it somewhere else.
Christ has nothing to do with this, and I bet he wouldn't like your insinuation that he might or did. :-) :-) -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin http://www.mcs.net/ | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | NEW! K56Flex support on ALL modems Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| EXCLUSIVE NEW FEATURE ON ALL PERSONAL ACCOUNTS Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | *SPAMBLOCK* Technology now included at no cost
Bob Allisat is, I'm sorry to say, a well-known Net-kook. I remember him infesting a bunch of Usenet newsgroups. Now that he appears to be on nanog, the best strategy might be to ignore him. -Declan At 07:19 -0800 11/25/97, Tom Glover wrote:
Oh, Christ. Not again. This never ending argument about BIND doesn't have any place on NANOG. Please take it somewhere else.
On Tue, 25 Nov 1997, Bob Allisat wrote:
Hmmm... A question we may be asking about you, your BIND monopoly and the way you've been a co-conspirator in all these monopoly moves. Seems like Paulie doesn't want anyone in his sandbox. Can Paulie spell "anti-trust"?
------------------------- Declan McCullagh Time Inc. The Netly News Network Washington Correspondent http://netlynews.com/
Just dig up a destructive bug for old macs and mail it to him. Better yet, he lives about 10 minutes from me... why don't I just go over and unplug him... ;) On Tue, 25 Nov 1997, Declan McCullagh wrote:
Bob Allisat is, I'm sorry to say, a well-known Net-kook. I remember him infesting a bunch of Usenet newsgroups. Now that he appears to be on nanog, the best strategy might be to ignore him.
-Declan
At 07:19 -0800 11/25/97, Tom Glover wrote:
Oh, Christ. Not again. This never ending argument about BIND doesn't have any place on NANOG. Please take it somewhere else.
On Tue, 25 Nov 1997, Bob Allisat wrote:
Hmmm... A question we may be asking about you, your BIND monopoly and the way you've been a co-conspirator in all these monopoly moves. Seems like Paulie doesn't want anyone in his sandbox. Can Paulie spell "anti-trust"?
------------------------- Declan McCullagh Time Inc. The Netly News Network Washington Correspondent http://netlynews.com/
Tom Glover wrote:
Oh, Christ. Not again. This never ending argument about BIND doesn't have any place on NANOG. Please take it somewhere else.
On Tue, 25 Nov 1997, Bob Allisat wrote:
At 6:42 PM -0800 11/24/97, Paul A Vixie wrote:
How much do I have to pay to keep him in jail forever?
Hmmm... A question we may be asking about you, your BIND monopoly and the way you've been a co-conspirator in all these monopoly moves. Seems like Paulie doesn't want anyone in his sandbox. Can Paulie spell "anti-trust"?
TeleVirtually Yours,
Bob Allisat
Director, World TeleVirtual Network http://www.wtv.net PO Box 191 St E Toronto Canada M6H 4E2 tor@wtv.net (416) 534-1999 http://www.wtv.net/portfolio.html
-- Regards, Tom
It has about as much reason to be on nanog as roasting Eugene does. Where is your complaint about this? John Frangie
On Tue, 25 Nov 1997, John Frangie wrote:
Tom Glover wrote:
Oh, Christ. Not again. This never ending argument about BIND doesn't have any place on NANOG. Please take it somewhere else.
On Tue, 25 Nov 1997, Bob Allisat wrote:
At 6:42 PM -0800 11/24/97, Paul A Vixie wrote:
How much do I have to pay to keep him in jail forever?
Hmmm... A question we may be asking about you, your BIND monopoly and the way you've been a co-conspirator in all these monopoly moves. Seems like Paulie doesn't want anyone in his sandbox. Can Paulie spell "anti-trust"?
TeleVirtually Yours,
Bob Allisat
Director, World TeleVirtual Network http://www.wtv.net PO Box 191 St E Toronto Canada M6H 4E2 tor@wtv.net (416) 534-1999 http://www.wtv.net/portfolio.html
-- Regards, Tom
It has about as much reason to be on nanog as roasting Eugene does. Where is your complaint about this?
John Frangie
The BIND argument has been played out before ad nauseum on NANOG and I see no point in going through it again. That was my point. I'm quite sure that the list will roast Eugene to the same nauseous extent and then we can all complain about that too. But you are correct in that I see no justification for either being on NANOG. -- Regards, Tom ________________________________________________________________________ | "The Egg Domain" | "An engineer without a manager, | | tomg@egg.com | is like a fish without a bicycle." | | http://www.egg.com/ | | | | |
On Tue, Nov 25, 1997 at 08:54:39AM -0800, Tom Glover wrote:
complain about that too. But you are correct in that I see no justification for either being on NANOG.
Well, if we'd all practice good quoting and reply list trimming hygiene, perhaps it wouldn't be quite so painful. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Unsolicited Commercial Emailers Sued The Suncoast Freenet "Two words: Darth Doogie." -- Jason Colby, Tampa Bay, Florida on alt.fan.heinlein +1 813 790 7592
participants (16)
-
Bob Allisat -
David Carmean -
Declan McCullagh -
Geoff White -
George Herbert -
Henry Linneweh -
Jay R. Ashworth -
John A. Tamplin -
John Frangie -
Karl Denninger -
Marc Hurst -
Martin Hannigan -
Paul A Vixie -
Randy Bush -
Tom Glover -
William Church