RE: The Death of TCP/IP
From: Wojtek Zlobicki [mailto:wojtekz@idirect.com] Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 3:09 PM
<RANT>
Nothing other than anti-Microsoft propaganda. You cannot blame Microsoft for high market share.
But you can blame them for making Vbasic available to every email message that wants to rape your system. Boy, what a brain-fart that was. It still stinks. Repeat after me; nothing in an email message should be executable without express and very deliberate operator intervention.
The main reason that *Nix hosts are generally more resilient to these type of worms is that it is less likely for a non informed administrator to administer a *Nix sever.
False. A very large portion of the *nux machines are in this sad condition.
If everyone that had a IIS box available on the big I, installed all related patches, worms like Code Red would never propagate very far.
Sure they would, you'd just never notice it. A *real* programmer would have started CodeRed out at the current Level III version.
Raw socket support in NOT a bad thing. I wonder if Robert Cringely and Steve Gibson are friends.
Now here, we agree.
"Say goodbye to TCP/IP and to anonymous connections of any kind. Hello to Hailstorm, tracking everything down to the last mile, and a more business-friendly Internet with prioritized packet-handling. "
I've just been looking at Hailstorm, it sucks. Think "totalitarianism". Think, re-enforcment of monopoly position.
</RANT>
I really encourage anyone with a tough skin, and looking for a good laugh to read this article.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Hough" <rch@acidpit.org> To: <nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 12:23 AM Subject: The Death of TCP/IP
Felt like sharing this most amusing article that I discovered in my Inbox this morning:
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20010802.html
-- Robert Hough (rch@acidpit.org)
----- Original Message ----- From: "Roeland Meyer" <rmeyer@mhsc.com> To: "'Wojtek Zlobicki'" <wojtekz@idirect.com>; <nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 10:20 PM Subject: RE: The Death of TCP/IP
From: Wojtek Zlobicki [mailto:wojtekz@idirect.com] Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 3:09 PM
<RANT>
Nothing other than anti-Microsoft propaganda. You cannot blame Microsoft for high market share.
But you can blame them for making Vbasic available to every email message that wants to rape your system. Boy, what a brain-fart that was. It still stinks. Repeat after me; nothing in an email message should be executable without express and very deliberate operator intervention.
Agreed, BUT .... as stated by Cringley himself, Microsoft tailors their software to the populus. Wow a software company listening to its users, what a travesty.
The main reason that *Nix hosts are generally more resilient to these type of worms is that it is less likely for a non informed administrator to administer a *Nix sever.
False. A very large portion of the *nux machines are in this sad condition.
False, many popular exploits (such as those with BIND) are fixed/patched much faster. Now a really scarry worm would be one that exploits Apache. I used *NIX and not Linux for a reason. Many UNIX boxes are much better secured. Joe Sixpack that installs his favourite distro of Linux is just as vulnerable as a windows users. I will give you the fact that there are still many unsecure/unpatched boxes in both worlds. It all comes down to the poor management of Internet connected devices. I am really encouraged by the new option of auto installing updates in Windows XP. It is sad that such a well publicized worm/bug is spreading so far (it made the front page of the National Post here in Canada).
If everyone that had a IIS box available on the big I, installed all related patches, worms like Code Red would never propagate very far.
Sure they would, you'd just never notice it. A *real* programmer would
have
started CodeRed out at the current Level III version.
Raw socket support in NOT a bad thing. I wonder if Robert Cringely and Steve Gibson are friends.
Now here, we agree.
"Say goodbye to TCP/IP and to anonymous connections of any kind. Hello to Hailstorm, tracking everything down to the last mile, and a more business-friendly Internet with prioritized packet-handling. "
I've just been looking at Hailstorm, it sucks. Think "totalitarianism". Think, re-enforcment of monopoly position.
</RANT>
I really encourage anyone with a tough skin, and looking for a good laugh to read this article.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Hough" <rch@acidpit.org> To: <nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 12:23 AM Subject: The Death of TCP/IP
Felt like sharing this most amusing article that I discovered in my Inbox this morning:
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20010802.html
-- Robert Hough (rch@acidpit.org)
On Sun, 05 Aug 2001 22:26:00 EDT, Wojtek Zlobicki <wojtekz@idirect.com> said:
Agreed, BUT .... as stated by Cringley himself, Microsoft tailors their software to the populus. Wow a software company listening to its users, what a travesty.
Does a manufacturer of *any* product have a moral obligation to give their customers what they ask for, if they know that it would be a bad/unsafe idea? I'm sure consumers would want a backyard gas grill that can heat itself up to cooking temperature in 5 seconds flat. The average consumer may not realize that this also means you're 7 seconds away from a fire, but the design engineers should know that. There *are* successful corporations that make a conscious decision to disregard the customers when they feel they have a moral obligation to do so. I know Chick-Fil-A loses my business every time I want a chicken sandwich on Sunday. I'm sure *most* of their customers wish they were open on Sunday - but they have their reasons, clearly explained on a big sign on every store I've been in. Also, remember that when Microsoft says "We just gave users what they asked for", there's a *VERY* good chance that (a) the users didn't know they had a *CHOICE* (you don't believe me, stop 50 people in front of a WalMart sometime, and ask them if a PC can run anything other than Windows), and (b) would probably answer differently if the question was rephrased ("Would you want more ease-of-use features, if those features also meant that some hacker from a Third World country could use them to hack into your computer, take your credit card numbers, and generally make your life miserable?"). -- Valdis Kletnieks Operating Systems Analyst Virginia Tech
False, many popular exploits (such as those with BIND) are fixed/patched much faster. Now a really scarry worm would be one that exploits Apache. I used *NIX and not Linux for a reason. Many UNIX boxes are much better secured. Joe Sixpack that installs his favourite distro of Linux is just as vulnerable as a windows users. I will give you the fact that there are still many unsecure/unpatched boxes in both worlds. It all comes down to the poor management of Internet connected devices. I am really encouraged by the new option of auto installing updates in Windows XP. It is sad that such a well publicized worm/bug is spreading so far (it made the front page of the National Post here in Canada).
I'd like to point out the many, many IRIX machines out there, along with AIX, Solaris, and any other *cough* "real" *cough* OS, that still come with telnet on by default, (ready to be broken into), RPC services, ftpd, [insert-wonderful-exploitable-service-here]. It isn't specific to any operating system, Microsoft just makes it a lot easier to get along, while being completely stupid, and hiding what's going on behind the scenes, as a side note, RedHat 7.1 now comes default with sshd, a firewall, hardly anything on by default (even if it is, it's firewalled), along with the ability to sign onto their site (free) and have it keep track of what updates you need to install (it emails you). This results in a Point, Click, wait for download, wait for update to install, and you're updated, debian has a similar capability (although not as good) which will also keep your system up-to-date. Please keep the unfounded OS bashing to a minimum. -poptix
I'm seeing this. Anyone else? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2001-08-05 22:11:37 <Client IP> - <Server IP> 80 GET /NULL.printer - 302 0 315 2365 0 3À°Ø@`3Û³$Ãÿàë¹1j - - - --------------------------------------------------------------------------
participants (5)
-
Matthew S . Hallacy -
Roeland Meyer -
Seth M. Kusiak -
Valdis.Kletnieks＠vt.edu -
Wojtek Zlobicki