Is there anyone on-list that can help me with a world -> gmail email issue, where email is being considering spam by gmail erroneously? Thanks.
Create a filter. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Feb 12, 2015 8:11 AM, "Alex Rubenstein" <alex@corp.nac.net> wrote:
Is there anyone on-list that can help me with a world -> gmail email issue, where email is being considering spam by gmail erroneously?
Thanks.
Don't use GMail for things you care about? ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Luthman" <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> To: "Alex Rubenstein" <alex@corp.nac.net> Cc: "NANOG list" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 8:31:58 AM Subject: Re: gmail spam help Create a filter. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Feb 12, 2015 8:11 AM, "Alex Rubenstein" <alex@corp.nac.net> wrote:
Is there anyone on-list that can help me with a world -> gmail email issue, where email is being considering spam by gmail erroneously?
Thanks.
If it's email you are sending from your domain that's getting marked as spam make sure that you have a reverse DNS setup, an SPF record, and DKIM signing helps too. Alex On Feb 12, 2015 8:42 AM, "Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:
Don't use GMail for things you care about?
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Josh Luthman" <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> To: "Alex Rubenstein" <alex@corp.nac.net> Cc: "NANOG list" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 8:31:58 AM Subject: Re: gmail spam help
Create a filter.
Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Feb 12, 2015 8:11 AM, "Alex Rubenstein" <alex@corp.nac.net> wrote:
Is there anyone on-list that can help me with a world -> gmail email issue, where email is being considering spam by gmail erroneously?
Thanks.
I should have been clearer. I have been getting complaints from my sales folks that when they send emails to people who use gmail (either a gmail account or google apps) that they recipient is reporting that the email is ending up in the Spam folder. So, I tested this myself, sending an email from alex@corp.nac.net<mailto:alex@corp.nac.net> to rubenstein45@gmail.com<mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com> [cid:image001.png@01D046AD.3B2FA890] This is curious to me, since @corp.nac.net is a small exchange implementation with only about 50 users behind it, and there is no question that there is no spamming going on from here. So, it’s not a question of adding a filter or not using gmail; it is not me who is using gmail in this problem. From: Josh Luthman [mailto:josh@imaginenetworksllc.com] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 9:32 AM To: Alex Rubenstein Cc: NANOG list Subject: Re: gmail spam help Create a filter. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Feb 12, 2015 8:11 AM, "Alex Rubenstein" <alex@corp.nac.net<mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>> wrote: Is there anyone on-list that can help me with a world -> gmail email issue, where email is being considering spam by gmail erroneously? Thanks.
I'd be interested to know how you can be so adamant about the lack of spam from this specific server. A great percentage of the spam hitting servers I have visibility into comes from very similar kinds of set ups because they tend to have little or no over sight in place. Also, lots of commercial email gets flagged as spam by users, even when they opted in for the email. If enough people flagged email from this server as spam it will cause Google to consider other email from the same small server as likely to be spam as well. Small systems, especially new ones, tend to unintentionally look like spam sources by not having proper reverse records, making sure you have SPF set up for the domain, etc. Scott Helms Vice President of Technology ZCorum (678) 507-5000 -------------------------------- http://twitter.com/kscotthelms -------------------------------- On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 10:41 AM, Alex Rubenstein <alex@corp.nac.net> wrote:
I should have been clearer.
I have been getting complaints from my sales folks that when they send emails to people who use gmail (either a gmail account or google apps) that they recipient is reporting that the email is ending up in the Spam folder. So, I tested this myself, sending an email from alex@corp.nac.net<mailto: alex@corp.nac.net> to rubenstein45@gmail.com<mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com
[cid:image001.png@01D046AD.3B2FA890]
This is curious to me, since @corp.nac.net is a small exchange implementation with only about 50 users behind it, and there is no question that there is no spamming going on from here.
So, it’s not a question of adding a filter or not using gmail; it is not me who is using gmail in this problem.
From: Josh Luthman [mailto:josh@imaginenetworksllc.com] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 9:32 AM To: Alex Rubenstein Cc: NANOG list Subject: Re: gmail spam help
Create a filter.
Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Feb 12, 2015 8:11 AM, "Alex Rubenstein" <alex@corp.nac.net<mailto: alex@corp.nac.net>> wrote: Is there anyone on-list that can help me with a world -> gmail email issue, where email is being considering spam by gmail erroneously?
Thanks.
Mainly because I own it, and the people who use it. The server has been around 10+ years and has tight oversight. SPF is proper. This is a recent issue. From: Scott Helms [mailto:khelms@zcorum.com] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 10:51 AM To: Alex Rubenstein Cc: Josh Luthman; NANOG list Subject: Re: gmail spam help I'd be interested to know how you can be so adamant about the lack of spam from this specific server. A great percentage of the spam hitting servers I have visibility into comes from very similar kinds of set ups because they tend to have little or no over sight in place. Also, lots of commercial email gets flagged as spam by users, even when they opted in for the email. If enough people flagged email from this server as spam it will cause Google to consider other email from the same small server as likely to be spam as well. Small systems, especially new ones, tend to unintentionally look like spam sources by not having proper reverse records, making sure you have SPF set up for the domain, etc. Scott Helms Vice President of Technology ZCorum (678) 507-5000 -------------------------------- http://twitter.com/kscotthelms -------------------------------- On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 10:41 AM, Alex Rubenstein <alex@corp.nac.net<mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>> wrote: I should have been clearer. I have been getting complaints from my sales folks that when they send emails to people who use gmail (either a gmail account or google apps) that they recipient is reporting that the email is ending up in the Spam folder. So, I tested this myself, sending an email from alex@corp.nac.net<mailto:alex@corp.nac.net><mailto:alex@corp.nac.net<mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>> to rubenstein45@gmail.com<mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com><mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com<mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com>> [cid:image001.png@01D046AD.3B2FA890] This is curious to me, since @corp.nac.net<http://corp.nac.net> is a small exchange implementation with only about 50 users behind it, and there is no question that there is no spamming going on from here. So, it’s not a question of adding a filter or not using gmail; it is not me who is using gmail in this problem. From: Josh Luthman [mailto:josh@imaginenetworksllc.com<mailto:josh@imaginenetworksllc.com>] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 9:32 AM To: Alex Rubenstein Cc: NANOG list Subject: Re: gmail spam help Create a filter. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340<tel:937-552-2340> Direct: 937-552-2343<tel:937-552-2343> 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Feb 12, 2015 8:11 AM, "Alex Rubenstein" <alex@corp.nac.net<mailto:alex@corp.nac.net><mailto:alex@corp.nac.net<mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>>> wrote: Is there anyone on-list that can help me with a world -> gmail email issue, where email is being considering spam by gmail erroneously? Thanks.
Possibly related: http://www.ahbl.org/content/changes-ahbl We had to manually remove it from spamassassin for our local installation, and I am pretty sure that a lot of sites still haven't figured it out so there's a lot of false positives being generated all over the place to throw off even filters that don't use it directly. On 02/12/2015 09:54 AM, Alex Rubenstein wrote:
Mainly because I own it, and the people who use it. The server has been around 10+ years and has tight oversight. SPF is proper. This is a recent issue.
From: Scott Helms [mailto:khelms@zcorum.com] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 10:51 AM To: Alex Rubenstein Cc: Josh Luthman; NANOG list Subject: Re: gmail spam help
I'd be interested to know how you can be so adamant about the lack of spam from this specific server. A great percentage of the spam hitting servers I have visibility into comes from very similar kinds of set ups because they tend to have little or no over sight in place.
Also, lots of commercial email gets flagged as spam by users, even when they opted in for the email. If enough people flagged email from this server as spam it will cause Google to consider other email from the same small server as likely to be spam as well. Small systems, especially new ones, tend to unintentionally look like spam sources by not having proper reverse records, making sure you have SPF set up for the domain, etc.
Scott Helms Vice President of Technology ZCorum (678) 507-5000 -------------------------------- http://twitter.com/kscotthelms --------------------------------
On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 10:41 AM, Alex Rubenstein <alex@corp.nac.net<mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>> wrote: I should have been clearer.
I have been getting complaints from my sales folks that when they send emails to people who use gmail (either a gmail account or google apps) that they recipient is reporting that the email is ending up in the Spam folder. So, I tested this myself, sending an email from alex@corp.nac.net<mailto:alex@corp.nac.net><mailto:alex@corp.nac.net<mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>> to rubenstein45@gmail.com<mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com><mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com<mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com>>
[cid:image001.png@01D046AD.3B2FA890]
This is curious to me, since @corp.nac.net<http://corp.nac.net> is a small exchange implementation with only about 50 users behind it, and there is no question that there is no spamming going on from here.
So, it’s not a question of adding a filter or not using gmail; it is not me who is using gmail in this problem.
From: Josh Luthman [mailto:josh@imaginenetworksllc.com<mailto:josh@imaginenetworksllc.com>] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 9:32 AM To: Alex Rubenstein Cc: NANOG list Subject: Re: gmail spam help
Create a filter.
Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340<tel:937-552-2340> Direct: 937-552-2343<tel:937-552-2343> 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Feb 12, 2015 8:11 AM, "Alex Rubenstein" <alex@corp.nac.net<mailto:alex@corp.nac.net><mailto:alex@corp.nac.net<mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>>> wrote: Is there anyone on-list that can help me with a world -> gmail email issue, where email is being considering spam by gmail erroneously?
Thanks.
-- Daniel Taylor VP Operations Vocal Laboratories, Inc. dtaylor@vocalabs.com http://www.vocalabs.com/ (612)235-5711
Please. Gmail isn't ever likely to use long dead hobbyist block lists. On Feb 12, 2015 9:38 PM, "Daniel Taylor" <dtaylor@vocalabs.com> wrote:
Possibly related: http://www.ahbl.org/content/changes-ahbl
We had to manually remove it from spamassassin for our local installation, and I am pretty sure that a lot of sites still haven't figured it out so there's a lot of false positives being generated all over the place to throw off even filters that don't use it directly.
On 02/12/2015 09:54 AM, Alex Rubenstein wrote:
Mainly because I own it, and the people who use it. The server has been around 10+ years and has tight oversight. SPF is proper. This is a recent issue.
From: Scott Helms [mailto:khelms@zcorum.com] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 10:51 AM To: Alex Rubenstein Cc: Josh Luthman; NANOG list Subject: Re: gmail spam help
I'd be interested to know how you can be so adamant about the lack of spam from this specific server. A great percentage of the spam hitting servers I have visibility into comes from very similar kinds of set ups because they tend to have little or no over sight in place.
Also, lots of commercial email gets flagged as spam by users, even when they opted in for the email. If enough people flagged email from this server as spam it will cause Google to consider other email from the same small server as likely to be spam as well. Small systems, especially new ones, tend to unintentionally look like spam sources by not having proper reverse records, making sure you have SPF set up for the domain, etc.
Scott Helms Vice President of Technology ZCorum (678) 507-5000 -------------------------------- http://twitter.com/kscotthelms --------------------------------
On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 10:41 AM, Alex Rubenstein <alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>> wrote: I should have been clearer.
I have been getting complaints from my sales folks that when they send emails to people who use gmail (either a gmail account or google apps) that they recipient is reporting that the email is ending up in the Spam folder. So, I tested this myself, sending an email from alex@corp.nac.net<mailto: alex@corp.nac.net><mailto:alex@corp.nac.net<mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>> to rubenstein45@gmail.com<mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com><mailto: rubenstein45@gmail.com<mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com>>
[cid:image001.png@01D046AD.3B2FA890]
This is curious to me, since @corp.nac.net<http://corp.nac.net> is a small exchange implementation with only about 50 users behind it, and there is no question that there is no spamming going on from here.
So, it’s not a question of adding a filter or not using gmail; it is not me who is using gmail in this problem.
From: Josh Luthman [mailto:josh@imaginenetworksllc.com<mailto: josh@imaginenetworksllc.com>] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 9:32 AM To: Alex Rubenstein Cc: NANOG list Subject: Re: gmail spam help
Create a filter.
Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340<tel:937-552-2340> Direct: 937-552-2343<tel:937-552-2343> 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Feb 12, 2015 8:11 AM, "Alex Rubenstein" <alex@corp.nac.net<mailto:alex @corp.nac.net><mailto:alex@corp.nac.net<mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>>> wrote: Is there anyone on-list that can help me with a world -> gmail email issue, where email is being considering spam by gmail erroneously?
Thanks.
-- Daniel Taylor VP Operations Vocal Laboratories, Inc. dtaylor@vocalabs.com http://www.vocalabs.com/ (612)235-5711
Of course not, and I didn't mean to imply that they were. I was surprised to see it still present *anywhere* (this was in a major Linux distribution, and may still be), and that hidden presence may be polluting data streams used by even the most responsible vendors unless they are running entirely self-contained. On 02/12/2015 07:04 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
Please. Gmail isn't ever likely to use long dead hobbyist block lists.
On Feb 12, 2015 9:38 PM, "Daniel Taylor" <dtaylor@vocalabs.com <mailto:dtaylor@vocalabs.com>> wrote:
Possibly related: http://www.ahbl.org/content/changes-ahbl
We had to manually remove it from spamassassin for our local installation, and I am pretty sure that a lot of sites still haven't figured it out so there's a lot of false positives being generated all over the place to throw off even filters that don't use it directly.
On 02/12/2015 09:54 AM, Alex Rubenstein wrote:
Mainly because I own it, and the people who use it. The server has been around 10+ years and has tight oversight. SPF is proper. This is a recent issue.
From: Scott Helms [mailto:khelms@zcorum.com <mailto:khelms@zcorum.com>] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 10:51 AM To: Alex Rubenstein Cc: Josh Luthman; NANOG list Subject: Re: gmail spam help
I'd be interested to know how you can be so adamant about the lack of spam from this specific server. A great percentage of the spam hitting servers I have visibility into comes from very similar kinds of set ups because they tend to have little or no over sight in place.
Also, lots of commercial email gets flagged as spam by users, even when they opted in for the email. If enough people flagged email from this server as spam it will cause Google to consider other email from the same small server as likely to be spam as well. Small systems, especially new ones, tend to unintentionally look like spam sources by not having proper reverse records, making sure you have SPF set up for the domain, etc.
Scott Helms Vice President of Technology ZCorum (678) 507-5000 -------------------------------- http://twitter.com/kscotthelms --------------------------------
On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 10:41 AM, Alex Rubenstein <alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net><mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>>> wrote: I should have been clearer.
I have been getting complaints from my sales folks that when they send emails to people who use gmail (either a gmail account or google apps) that they recipient is reporting that the email is ending up in the Spam folder. So, I tested this myself, sending an email from alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net><mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>><mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net><mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>>> to rubenstein45@gmail.com <mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com><mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com <mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com>><mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com <mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com><mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com <mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com>>>
[cid:image001.png@01D046AD.3B2FA890]
This is curious to me, since @corp.nac.net <http://corp.nac.net><http://corp.nac.net> is a small exchange implementation with only about 50 users behind it, and there is no question that there is no spamming going on from here.
So, it’s not a question of adding a filter or not using gmail; it is not me who is using gmail in this problem.
From: Josh Luthman [mailto:josh@imaginenetworksllc.com <mailto:josh@imaginenetworksllc.com><mailto:josh@imaginenetworksllc.com <mailto:josh@imaginenetworksllc.com>>] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 9:32 AM To: Alex Rubenstein Cc: NANOG list Subject: Re: gmail spam help
Create a filter.
Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340<tel:937-552-2340> Direct: 937-552-2343<tel:937-552-2343> 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Feb 12, 2015 8:11 AM, "Alex Rubenstein" <alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net><mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>><mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net><mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>>>> wrote: Is there anyone on-list that can help me with a world -> gmail email issue, where email is being considering spam by gmail erroneously?
Thanks.
-- Daniel Taylor VP Operations Vocal Laboratories, Inc. dtaylor@vocalabs.com <mailto:dtaylor@vocalabs.com> http://www.vocalabs.com/ (612)235-5711
Which distro is it that has dnsbl filtering on by default, and also defaulting to shady no name blocklists? I have yet to see a case where turning this sort of thing on first and kicking self later wasn't because of a clueless sysadmin. On Feb 13, 2015 7:36 AM, "Daniel Taylor" <dtaylor@vocalabs.com> wrote:
Of course not, and I didn't mean to imply that they were.
I was surprised to see it still present *anywhere* (this was in a major Linux distribution, and may still be), and that hidden presence may be polluting data streams used by even the most responsible vendors unless they are running entirely self-contained.
On 02/12/2015 07:04 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
Please. Gmail isn't ever likely to use long dead hobbyist block lists.
On Feb 12, 2015 9:38 PM, "Daniel Taylor" <dtaylor@vocalabs.com <mailto: dtaylor@vocalabs.com>> wrote:
Possibly related: http://www.ahbl.org/content/changes-ahbl
We had to manually remove it from spamassassin for our local installation, and I am pretty sure that a lot of sites still haven't figured it out so there's a lot of false positives being generated all over the place to throw off even filters that don't use it directly.
On 02/12/2015 09:54 AM, Alex Rubenstein wrote:
Mainly because I own it, and the people who use it. The server has been around 10+ years and has tight oversight. SPF is proper. This is a recent issue.
From: Scott Helms [mailto:khelms@zcorum.com <mailto:khelms@zcorum.com>] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 10:51 AM To: Alex Rubenstein Cc: Josh Luthman; NANOG list Subject: Re: gmail spam help
I'd be interested to know how you can be so adamant about the lack of spam from this specific server. A great percentage of the spam hitting servers I have visibility into comes from very similar kinds of set ups because they tend to have little or no over sight in place.
Also, lots of commercial email gets flagged as spam by users, even when they opted in for the email. If enough people flagged email from this server as spam it will cause Google to consider other email from the same small server as likely to be spam as well. Small systems, especially new ones, tend to unintentionally look like spam sources by not having proper reverse records, making sure you have SPF set up for the domain, etc.
Scott Helms Vice President of Technology ZCorum (678) 507-5000 -------------------------------- http://twitter.com/kscotthelms --------------------------------
On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 10:41 AM, Alex Rubenstein <alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net><mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>>> wrote: I should have been clearer.
I have been getting complaints from my sales folks that when they send emails to people who use gmail (either a gmail account or google apps) that they recipient is reporting that the email is ending up in the Spam folder. So, I tested this myself, sending an email from alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net><mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>><mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net><mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>>> to rubenstein45@gmail.com <mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com><mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com <mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com>><mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com <mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com><mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com <mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com>>>
[cid:image001.png@01D046AD.3B2FA890]
This is curious to me, since @corp.nac.net <http://corp.nac.net><http://corp.nac.net> is a small exchange implementation with only about 50 users behind it, and there is no question that there is no spamming going on from here.
So, it’s not a question of adding a filter or not using gmail; it is not me who is using gmail in this problem.
From: Josh Luthman [mailto:josh@imaginenetworksllc.com <mailto:josh@imaginenetworksllc.com><mailto:josh@ imaginenetworksllc.com <mailto:josh@imaginenetworksllc.com>>] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 9:32 AM To: Alex Rubenstein Cc: NANOG list Subject: Re: gmail spam help
Create a filter.
Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340<tel:937-552-2340> Direct: 937-552-2343<tel:937-552-2343> 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Feb 12, 2015 8:11 AM, "Alex Rubenstein" <alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net><mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>><mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net><mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>>>> wrote: Is there anyone on-list that can help me with a world -> gmail email issue, where email is being considering spam by gmail erroneously?
Thanks.
-- Daniel Taylor VP Operations Vocal Laboratories, Inc. dtaylor@vocalabs.com <mailto:dtaylor@vocalabs.com> http://www.vocalabs.com/ (612)235-5711
More than one, but I found it here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/spamassassin/+bug/1412830 They did patch it after it finally became a problem, I don't know about any other distributions. On 02/12/2015 08:09 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
Which distro is it that has dnsbl filtering on by default, and also defaulting to shady no name blocklists?
I have yet to see a case where turning this sort of thing on first and kicking self later wasn't because of a clueless sysadmin.
On Feb 13, 2015 7:36 AM, "Daniel Taylor" <dtaylor@vocalabs.com <mailto:dtaylor@vocalabs.com>> wrote:
Of course not, and I didn't mean to imply that they were.
I was surprised to see it still present *anywhere* (this was in a major Linux distribution, and may still be), and that hidden presence may be polluting data streams used by even the most responsible vendors unless they are running entirely self-contained.
On 02/12/2015 07:04 PM, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
Please. Gmail isn't ever likely to use long dead hobbyist block lists.
On Feb 12, 2015 9:38 PM, "Daniel Taylor" <dtaylor@vocalabs.com <mailto:dtaylor@vocalabs.com> <mailto:dtaylor@vocalabs.com <mailto:dtaylor@vocalabs.com>>> wrote:
Possibly related: http://www.ahbl.org/content/changes-ahbl
We had to manually remove it from spamassassin for our local installation, and I am pretty sure that a lot of sites still haven't figured it out so there's a lot of false positives being generated all over the place to throw off even filters that don't use it directly.
On 02/12/2015 09:54 AM, Alex Rubenstein wrote:
Mainly because I own it, and the people who use it. The server has been around 10+ years and has tight oversight. SPF is proper. This is a recent issue.
From: Scott Helms [mailto:khelms@zcorum.com <mailto:khelms@zcorum.com> <mailto:khelms@zcorum.com <mailto:khelms@zcorum.com>>] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 10:51 AM To: Alex Rubenstein Cc: Josh Luthman; NANOG list Subject: Re: gmail spam help
I'd be interested to know how you can be so adamant about the lack of spam from this specific server. A great percentage of the spam hitting servers I have visibility into comes from very similar kinds of set ups because they tend to have little or no over sight in place.
Also, lots of commercial email gets flagged as spam by users, even when they opted in for the email. If enough people flagged email from this server as spam it will cause Google to consider other email from the same small server as likely to be spam as well. Small systems, especially new ones, tend to unintentionally look like spam sources by not having proper reverse records, making sure you have SPF set up for the domain, etc.
Scott Helms Vice President of Technology ZCorum (678) 507-5000 -------------------------------- http://twitter.com/kscotthelms --------------------------------
On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 10:41 AM, Alex Rubenstein <alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net> <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>><mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net> <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>>>> wrote: I should have been clearer.
I have been getting complaints from my sales folks that when they send emails to people who use gmail (either a gmail account or google apps) that they recipient is reporting that the email is ending up in the Spam folder. So, I tested this myself, sending an email from alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net> <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>><mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net> <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>>><mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net> <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>><mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net> <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>>>> to rubenstein45@gmail.com <mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com> <mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com <mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com>><mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com <mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com> <mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com <mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com>>><mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com <mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com> <mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com <mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com>><mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com <mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com> <mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com <mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com>>>>
[cid:image001.png@01D046AD.3B2FA890]
This is curious to me, since @corp.nac.net <http://corp.nac.net> <http://corp.nac.net><http://corp.nac.net> is a small exchange implementation with only about 50 users behind it, and there is no question that there is no spamming going on from here.
So, it’s not a question of adding a filter or not using gmail; it is not me who is using gmail in this problem.
From: Josh Luthman [mailto:josh@imaginenetworksllc.com <mailto:josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> <mailto:josh@imaginenetworksllc.com <mailto:josh@imaginenetworksllc.com>><mailto:josh@imaginenetworksllc.com <mailto:josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> <mailto:josh@imaginenetworksllc.com <mailto:josh@imaginenetworksllc.com>>>] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 9:32 AM To: Alex Rubenstein Cc: NANOG list Subject: Re: gmail spam help
Create a filter.
Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340<tel:937-552-2340> Direct: 937-552-2343<tel:937-552-2343> 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Feb 12, 2015 8:11 AM, "Alex Rubenstein" <alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net> <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>><mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net> <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>>><mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net> <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>><mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net> <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net <mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>>>>> wrote: Is there anyone on-list that can help me with a world -> gmail email issue, where email is being considering spam by gmail erroneously?
Thanks.
-- Daniel Taylor VP Operations Vocal Laboratories, Inc. dtaylor@vocalabs.com <mailto:dtaylor@vocalabs.com> <mailto:dtaylor@vocalabs.com <mailto:dtaylor@vocalabs.com>> http://www.vocalabs.com/ (612)235-5711
-- Daniel Taylor VP Operations Vocal Laboratories, Inc. dtaylor@vocalabs.com http://www.vocalabs.com/ (612)235-5711
Alex, I won't begin to claim to know the root cause behind this, but "I own it" isn't a good reason to say that no spam has come from it, indeed it's not even a reason to say that a great amount of spam hasn't come from it. The only way Google allows contact on these issues is via this form: https://support.google.com/mail/contact/msgdelivery I also see that your domain is listed by http://www.squidblacklist.org/ http://mxtoolbox.com/SuperTool.aspx?action=blacklist%3acorp.nac.net&run=toolpage Clearly it's not just Google that sees some issues, but your domain doesn't appear to be on any other email black lists, which generally means that a machine(s) on your network is/was compromised and being used in a phishing attack. Scott Helms Vice President of Technology ZCorum (678) 507-5000 -------------------------------- http://twitter.com/kscotthelms -------------------------------- On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Alex Rubenstein <alex@corp.nac.net> wrote:
Mainly because I own it, and the people who use it. The server has been around 10+ years and has tight oversight. SPF is proper. This is a recent issue.
*From:* Scott Helms [mailto:khelms@zcorum.com] *Sent:* Thursday, February 12, 2015 10:51 AM *To:* Alex Rubenstein *Cc:* Josh Luthman; NANOG list *Subject:* Re: gmail spam help
I'd be interested to know how you can be so adamant about the lack of spam from this specific server. A great percentage of the spam hitting servers I have visibility into comes from very similar kinds of set ups because they tend to have little or no over sight in place.
Also, lots of commercial email gets flagged as spam by users, even when they opted in for the email. If enough people flagged email from this server as spam it will cause Google to consider other email from the same small server as likely to be spam as well. Small systems, especially new ones, tend to unintentionally look like spam sources by not having proper reverse records, making sure you have SPF set up for the domain, etc.
Scott Helms Vice President of Technology ZCorum (678) 507-5000 -------------------------------- http://twitter.com/kscotthelms --------------------------------
On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 10:41 AM, Alex Rubenstein <alex@corp.nac.net> wrote:
I should have been clearer.
I have been getting complaints from my sales folks that when they send emails to people who use gmail (either a gmail account or google apps) that they recipient is reporting that the email is ending up in the Spam folder. So, I tested this myself, sending an email from alex@corp.nac.net<mailto: alex@corp.nac.net> to rubenstein45@gmail.com<mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com
[cid:image001.png@01D046AD.3B2FA890]
This is curious to me, since @corp.nac.net is a small exchange implementation with only about 50 users behind it, and there is no question that there is no spamming going on from here.
So, it’s not a question of adding a filter or not using gmail; it is not me who is using gmail in this problem.
From: Josh Luthman [mailto:josh@imaginenetworksllc.com] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 9:32 AM To: Alex Rubenstein Cc: NANOG list Subject: Re: gmail spam help
Create a filter.
Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Feb 12, 2015 8:11 AM, "Alex Rubenstein" <alex@corp.nac.net<mailto: alex@corp.nac.net>> wrote: Is there anyone on-list that can help me with a world -> gmail email issue, where email is being considering spam by gmail erroneously?
Thanks.
A good tool to test all that is mxtoolbox.com. They have black list checks and SMTP tests that will check your PTR records and other things. They also provide free weekly blacklist checks for one domain. DJ Anderson Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 12, 2015, at 10:53 AM, Scott Helms <khelms@zcorum.com> wrote:
I'd be interested to know how you can be so adamant about the lack of spam from this specific server. A great percentage of the spam hitting servers I have visibility into comes from very similar kinds of set ups because they tend to have little or no over sight in place.
Also, lots of commercial email gets flagged as spam by users, even when they opted in for the email. If enough people flagged email from this server as spam it will cause Google to consider other email from the same small server as likely to be spam as well. Small systems, especially new ones, tend to unintentionally look like spam sources by not having proper reverse records, making sure you have SPF set up for the domain, etc.
Scott Helms Vice President of Technology ZCorum (678) 507-5000 -------------------------------- http://twitter.com/kscotthelms --------------------------------
On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 10:41 AM, Alex Rubenstein <alex@corp.nac.net> wrote:
I should have been clearer.
I have been getting complaints from my sales folks that when they send emails to people who use gmail (either a gmail account or google apps) that they recipient is reporting that the email is ending up in the Spam folder. So, I tested this myself, sending an email from alex@corp.nac.net<mailto: alex@corp.nac.net> to rubenstein45@gmail.com<mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com
[cid:image001.png@01D046AD.3B2FA890]
This is curious to me, since @corp.nac.net is a small exchange implementation with only about 50 users behind it, and there is no question that there is no spamming going on from here.
So, it’s not a question of adding a filter or not using gmail; it is not me who is using gmail in this problem.
From: Josh Luthman [mailto:josh@imaginenetworksllc.com] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 9:32 AM To: Alex Rubenstein Cc: NANOG list Subject: Re: gmail spam help
Create a filter.
Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Feb 12, 2015 8:11 AM, "Alex Rubenstein" <alex@corp.nac.net<mailto: alex@corp.nac.net>> wrote: Is there anyone on-list that can help me with a world -> gmail email issue, where email is being considering spam by gmail erroneously?
Thanks.
See https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126 which may take you to https://support.google.com/mail/troubleshooter/2696779 and eventually to https://support.google.com/mail/contact/bulk_send_new?hl=en&rd=1 HTH. On 12 February 2015 at 15:41, Alex Rubenstein <alex@corp.nac.net> wrote:
I should have been clearer.
I have been getting complaints from my sales folks that when they send emails to people who use gmail (either a gmail account or google apps) that they recipient is reporting that the email is ending up in the Spam folder. So, I tested this myself, sending an email from alex@corp.nac.net<mailto: alex@corp.nac.net> to rubenstein45@gmail.com<mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com
[cid:image001.png@01D046AD.3B2FA890]
This is curious to me, since @corp.nac.net is a small exchange implementation with only about 50 users behind it, and there is no question that there is no spamming going on from here.
So, it’s not a question of adding a filter or not using gmail; it is not me who is using gmail in this problem.
From: Josh Luthman [mailto:josh@imaginenetworksllc.com] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 9:32 AM To: Alex Rubenstein Cc: NANOG list Subject: Re: gmail spam help
Create a filter.
Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Feb 12, 2015 8:11 AM, "Alex Rubenstein" <alex@corp.nac.net<mailto: alex@corp.nac.net>> wrote: Is there anyone on-list that can help me with a world -> gmail email issue, where email is being considering spam by gmail erroneously?
Thanks.
It may be worth taking a look at the Bulk Senders Guidelines to make sure any additional steps suggested by Google (DKIM signing, etc) have been taken: https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126?hl=en It may also be that other Gmail users have flagged your emails as spam in the past. Thanks, Ben Apologies, the content of my last email was stripped. On 12/02/15 15:41, Alex Rubenstein wrote:
I should have been clearer.
I have been getting complaints from my sales folks that when they send emails to people who use gmail (either a gmail account or google apps) that they recipient is reporting that the email is ending up in the Spam folder. So, I tested this myself, sending an email from alex@corp.nac.net<mailto:alex@corp.nac.net> to rubenstein45@gmail.com<mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com>
[cid:image001.png@01D046AD.3B2FA890]
This is curious to me, since @corp.nac.net is a small exchange implementation with only about 50 users behind it, and there is no question that there is no spamming going on from here.
So, it’s not a question of adding a filter or not using gmail; it is not me who is using gmail in this problem.
From: Josh Luthman [mailto:josh@imaginenetworksllc.com] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 9:32 AM To: Alex Rubenstein Cc: NANOG list Subject: Re: gmail spam help
Create a filter.
Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Feb 12, 2015 8:11 AM, "Alex Rubenstein" <alex@corp.nac.net<mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>> wrote: Is there anyone on-list that can help me with a world -> gmail email issue, where email is being considering spam by gmail erroneously?
Thanks.
That's my thought, too -- add DKIM and also work through those Google forms. I didn't see any red flags when I checked an IP and your host against some email "measurement" sites. -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Ben Whorwood Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 10:28 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: gmail spam help It may be worth taking a look at the Bulk Senders Guidelines to make sure any additional steps suggested by Google (DKIM signing, etc) have been taken: https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126?hl=en It may also be that other Gmail users have flagged your emails as spam in the past. Thanks, Ben Apologies, the content of my last email was stripped. On 12/02/15 15:41, Alex Rubenstein wrote:
I should have been clearer.
I have been getting complaints from my sales folks that when they send emails to people who use gmail (either a gmail account or google apps) that they recipient is reporting that the email is ending up in the Spam folder. So, I tested this myself, sending an email from alex@corp.nac.net<mailto:alex@corp.nac.net> to rubenstein45@gmail.com<mailto:rubenstein45@gmail.com>
[cid:image001.png@01D046AD.3B2FA890]
This is curious to me, since @corp.nac.net is a small exchange implementation with only about 50 users behind it, and there is no question that there is no spamming going on from here.
So, it’s not a question of adding a filter or not using gmail; it is not me who is using gmail in this problem.
From: Josh Luthman [mailto:josh@imaginenetworksllc.com] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 9:32 AM To: Alex Rubenstein Cc: NANOG list Subject: Re: gmail spam help
Create a filter.
Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Feb 12, 2015 8:11 AM, "Alex Rubenstein" <alex@corp.nac.net<mailto:alex@corp.nac.net>> wrote: Is there anyone on-list that can help me with a world -> gmail email issue, where email is being considering spam by gmail erroneously?
Thanks.
participants (11)
-
Alex Leahu -
Alex Rubenstein -
Ben Whorwood -
Daniel Taylor -
DJ Anderson -
Frank Bulk -
Josh Luthman -
Mike Hammett -
Pedro Cavaca -
Scott Helms -
Suresh Ramasubramanian