I don't know who else needs to hear this (other than the network that is causing me problems right now), but if you're dropping traceroute and generic ICMP echo response on your network, you need to stop. You can't tell me you're having problems with one of your upstreams, ask me to troubleshoot and assist, then block common methods of troubleshooting. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com