NXDOMAIN data needed for survey
We are looking to purchase NXDOMAIN data for an internet survey. We prefer to receive the data on an hourly basis so it is as fresh as possible. Our system receives the data from you via ftp that you provide. Its hard to value the data until we have taken a look at it. As one example, we pay a current partner $4000 per month for 100,000 records per day. If you would like to setup a test so we can determine the value of your data please contact me at raydemain@gmail.com. Please note that if you can also bring in other partners we will pay a 10% recurring finders fee. Ray
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Ray Demain wrote:
We are looking to purchase NXDOMAIN data for an internet survey.
We prefer to receive the data on an hourly basis so it is as fresh as possible. Our system receives the data from you via ftp that you provide. Its hard to value the data until we have taken a look at it. As one example, we pay a current partner $4000 per month for 100,000 records per day. If you would like to setup a test so we can determine the value of your data please contact me at
What company would this be for? -M<
On Mar 20, 2008, at 9:56 AM, Martin Hannigan wrote:
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Ray Demain wrote:
We are looking to purchase NXDOMAIN data for an internet survey.
We prefer to receive the data on an hourly basis so it is as fresh as possible. Our system receives the data from you via ftp that you provide. Its hard to value the data until we have taken a look at it. As one example, we pay a current partner $4000 per month for 100,000 records per day. If you would like to setup a test so we can determine the value of your data please contact me at
What company would this be for?
A domain squatting company, presumably. The same pseudonym has been trolling web hosting forums to buy the same data today. He's Marlon Phillips, marlon@mapcom.net, I'm pretty sure, though which particular squatter company he represents, I've no idea. Cheers, Steve
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Steve Atkins <steve@blighty.com> wrote:
On Mar 20, 2008, at 9:56 AM, Martin Hannigan wrote:
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Ray Demain wrote:
We are looking to purchase NXDOMAIN data for an internet survey.
We prefer to receive the data on an hourly basis so it is as fresh as possible. Our system receives the data from you via ftp that you provide. Its hard to value the data until we have taken a look at it. As one example, we pay a current partner $4000 per month for 100,000 records per day. If you would like to setup a test so we can determine the value of your data please contact me at
What company would this be for?
A domain squatting company, presumably.
Thanks, I know. I wanted to stimulate a thread that was archived for others historical reference. -M<
On Mar 20, 2008, at 12:04 PM, Martin Hannigan wrote:
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Steve Atkins <steve@blighty.com> wrote:
On Mar 20, 2008, at 9:56 AM, Martin Hannigan wrote:
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 12:22 PM, Ray Demain wrote:
We are looking to purchase NXDOMAIN data for an internet survey.
We prefer to receive the data on an hourly basis so it is as fresh as possible. Our system receives the data from you via ftp that you provide. Its hard to value the data until we have taken a look at it. As one example, we pay a current partner $4000 per month for 100,000 records per day. If you would like to setup a test so we can determine the value of your data please contact me at
What company would this be for?
A domain squatting company, presumably.
Thanks, I know. I wanted to stimulate a thread that was archived for others historical reference.
Yeah, me too. He's also apparently Mr Domain Investments LLC, Mr herbalclicks.com, was typosquatting on a bunch of t-mobile domains until they took them away from him - http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/decisions/html/2007/d2007-0919.html - and was sued by Microsoft for sending CAN-SPAM violating spam to hotmail users a couple of years back in the myauctionbiz.biz case - http://spamkings.oreilly.com/MSFT-vs-Myauctionbizbiz.pdf . I wonder who he's paying for his nxdomain data, and whether that someone is authorized to sell it. It strikes me that it's just a small step for someone with access to ISP internal data to go from selling DNS logs to selling usernames too. Cheers, Steve
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 3:22 PM, Steve Atkins <steve@blighty.com> wrote: [ snip ]
I wonder who he's paying for his nxdomain data, and whether that someone is authorized to sell it. It strikes me that it's just a small step for someone with access to ISP internal data to go from selling DNS logs to selling usernames too.
This is tip of the iceberg level activity. These people are exploiting "unique identifiers" i.e. domains names and IP addresses. We need to fear them, and respond appropriately. They are disruptive to the Internet, to the users and commerce. -M<
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Steve Atkins <steve@blighty.com> wrote:
He's Marlon Phillips, marlon@mapcom.net, I'm pretty sure, though which particular squatter company he represents, I've no idea.
where does mapcom.net go? bizland.net ... registered through verisign and hosted at ipowerweb? Their website (www.mapcom.net) has a sedo-parking park-page, perhaps marlon works for sedoparking? -Chris
raydemain@gmail.com ("Ray Demain") writes:
We are looking to purchase NXDOMAIN data for an internet survey.
your survey sounds more like an ongoing typosquatting business venture.
We prefer to receive the data on an hourly basis so it is as fresh as possible. Our system receives the data from you via ftp that you provide. Its hard to value the data until we have taken a look at it. As one example, we pay a current partner $4000 per month for 100,000 records per day. If you would like to setup a test so we can determine the value of your data please contact me at raydemain@gmail.com.
Please note that if you can also bring in other partners we will pay a 10% recurring finders fee.
thanks for clarifying my purpose in never collecting NXDOMAIN data in ISC SIE (see <http://sie.isc.org/>). several folks told me i was out to lunch, but now i've got <http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/nanog/msg06810.html> to point at. -- Paul Vixie
What's even more interesting is that googling Ray Demain shows nothing, except this message. I'd say that M. Demain does not exist, and his money will be as real as his on-line presence. I always love commissions promised from entities whose revenues you can't audit. Never mind that the purpose of this is, most likely, to register domains as link-farms. I think it's best that we let David Ulevitch and the crew @ OpenDNS make the money that is to be made off this. He's doing good while doing well. BTW: If someone legitimate needs NXDOMAIN data, I do have a bunch.
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of michael.dillon@bt.com Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 10:25 AM To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: RE: NXDOMAIN data needed for survey
We are looking to purchase NXDOMAIN data for an internet survey.
your survey sounds more like an ongoing typosquatting business venture.
Doing a Google search with the keywords pay nxdomain data turns up some interesting information.
--Michael Dillon
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 10:45:30AM -0700, Tomas L. Byrnes wrote:
BTW: If someone legitimate needs NXDOMAIN data, I do have a bunch.
If anyone else is interesting in a concerted effort to provide falsified data, I'm interested in helping and hosting. -- Ross Vandegrift ross@kallisti.us "The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell." --St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37
I think it's best that we let David Ulevitch and the crew @ OpenDNS make the money that is to be made off this. He's doing good while doing well.
Why shouldn't anyone be able to "make the money"? The problem with that post wasn't that he was advocating law breaking, it was that it's a marketing missive and inconsistent with community norms, IMHO. That doesn't mean that it's illegal, and it certainly doesn't mean it's ok for one "good guy" to be allowed to profit and one unknown not to. Setting classes of who can profit from NXDOMAIN data creates unfairness in the system and it should be all or none. What you really want to look at is privacy policy. Not all of the good guys are actually good guys in that respect.
BTW: If someone legitimate needs NXDOMAIN data, I do have a bunch.
How much are you charging? -M<
[ disclaimer: i work for opendns. ] On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 05:53:15PM -0400, Martin Hannigan wrote:
I think it's best that we let David Ulevitch and the crew @ OpenDNS make the money that is to be made off this. He's doing good while doing well.
Why shouldn't anyone be able to "make the money"? The problem with that post wasn't that he was advocating law breaking, it was that it's a marketing missive and inconsistent with community norms, IMHO. That doesn't mean that it's illegal, and it certainly doesn't mean it's ok for one "good guy" to be allowed to profit and one unknown not to. Setting classes of who can profit from NXDOMAIN data creates unfairness in the system and it should be all or none.
now that our name has been brought into this, i think it's only fair to say: the NXDOMAIN data we know about is when a user's resolver asks our recursive servers for a record and NXDOMAIN is the end result of what our resolvers discover. at that point, we optionally point you at a lander page w/ search results and ads and all that jazz based on the words in the record you [mis-]typed. note the optionally. if you want, we'll just return NXDOMAIN. you can configure this. you can configure it per-ip, per-prefix, etc. now, on to what we do or could do with that data: we do not sell and have never sold NXDOMAIN data. nor do we register domains based on NXDOMAIN information. the non-OpenDNS company who sees the original request that produced the NXDOMAIN that failed (which may or may not even be a valid hostname) is our advertising partner. they get that data after we've transformed the original request into their API to send to them as keywords so they may return appropriate and relevant ads. so, to recap: nope, we don't sell NXDOMAIN data. we don't sell any other data either. yes, some revenue comes from typos/mistakes. you knew that already. yes, you can even change that behavior and just get NXDOMAIN. that means your typos gain us nothing. you get our service for free. yes, you opt-in to our service in the first place. yes, we have a privacy policy that says this better than i can.
What you really want to look at is privacy policy. Not all of the good guys are actually good guys in that respect.
http://www.opendns.com/privacy/ it looks pretty good to me. i read it before i agreed to employment. -- billf >at< opendns.com // opendns network engineering p.s. since i rarely if ever post, i have to make the shameless, shameless plug: <peering@opendns.com>. we're in peeringdb too.
Bill, Isn't it funny though that OpenDNS is funded by the same group who funded Paxfire? www.minorventures.com OpenDNS can be an angel on one shoulder while Paxfire is on the other, right? Ray On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 9:09 PM, bill fumerola <billf@mu.org> wrote:
[ disclaimer: i work for opendns. ]
On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 05:53:15PM -0400, Martin Hannigan wrote:
I think it's best that we let David Ulevitch and the crew @ OpenDNS make the money that is to be made off this. He's doing good while doing well.
Why shouldn't anyone be able to "make the money"? The problem with that post wasn't that he was advocating law breaking, it was that it's a marketing missive and inconsistent with community norms, IMHO. That doesn't mean that it's illegal, and it certainly doesn't mean it's ok for one "good guy" to be allowed to profit and one unknown not to. Setting classes of who can profit from NXDOMAIN data creates unfairness in the system and it should be all or none.
now that our name has been brought into this, i think it's only fair to say: the NXDOMAIN data we know about is when a user's resolver asks our recursive servers for a record and NXDOMAIN is the end result of what our resolvers discover.
at that point, we optionally point you at a lander page w/ search results and ads and all that jazz based on the words in the record you [mis-]typed. note the optionally. if you want, we'll just return NXDOMAIN. you can configure this. you can configure it per-ip, per-prefix, etc.
now, on to what we do or could do with that data:
we do not sell and have never sold NXDOMAIN data. nor do we register domains based on NXDOMAIN information. the non-OpenDNS company who sees the original request that produced the NXDOMAIN that failed (which may or may not even be a valid hostname) is our advertising partner.
they get that data after we've transformed the original request into their API to send to them as keywords so they may return appropriate and relevant ads.
so, to recap: nope, we don't sell NXDOMAIN data. we don't sell any other data either. yes, some revenue comes from typos/mistakes. you knew that already. yes, you can even change that behavior and just get NXDOMAIN. that means your typos gain us nothing. you get our service for free. yes, you opt-in to our service in the first place. yes, we have a privacy policy that says this better than i can.
What you really want to look at is privacy policy. Not all of the good guys are actually good guys in that respect.
http://www.opendns.com/privacy/
it looks pretty good to me. i read it before i agreed to employment.
-- billf >at< opendns.com // opendns network engineering
p.s. since i rarely if ever post, i have to make the shameless, shameless plug: <peering@opendns.com>. we're in peeringdb too.
Ray Demain wrote:
Isn't it funny though that OpenDNS is funded by the same group who funded Paxfire?
It might seem weird to you, but it's very common. Once VC has done the due diligence in a space they are more likely to invest in another company doing something in a related space, for better or worse.
OpenDNS can be an angel on one shoulder while Paxfire is on the other, right?
Your inference is unfounded. -David Ulevitch ps: End of this thread for me. It was dumb to begin with and despite the flaming, I'm sure a bunch of netops wrote back to the guy offering to sell NXDOMAIN data. Giving it more airtime is a waste of bits.
What's more funny is that googling "Ray Demain" only brings up lots of posts from you looking for NXDOMAIN data. What's your real name? Who do YOU work for? Who funds that company? Before you go accusing others of subterfuge and conspiracy, be up front about who you are, what you're about, and what you plan on doing with the data. ________________________________ From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Ray Demain Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 9:13 AM To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: NXDOMAIN data needed for survey Bill, Isn't it funny though that OpenDNS is funded by the same group who funded Paxfire? www.minorventures.com OpenDNS can be an angel on one shoulder while Paxfire is on the other, right? Ray On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 9:09 PM, bill fumerola <billf@mu.org> wrote: [ disclaimer: i work for opendns. ] On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 05:53:15PM -0400, Martin Hannigan wrote: > > I think it's best that we let David Ulevitch and the crew @ OpenDNS make > > the money that is to be made off this. He's doing good while doing well. > > Why shouldn't anyone be able to "make the money"? The problem with > that post wasn't that he was advocating law breaking, it was that it's > a marketing missive and inconsistent with community norms, IMHO. That > doesn't mean that it's illegal, and it certainly doesn't mean it's ok > for one "good guy" to be allowed to profit and one unknown not to. > Setting classes of who can profit from NXDOMAIN data creates > unfairness in the system and it should be all or none. now that our name has been brought into this, i think it's only fair to say: the NXDOMAIN data we know about is when a user's resolver asks our recursive servers for a record and NXDOMAIN is the end result of what our resolvers discover. at that point, we optionally point you at a lander page w/ search results and ads and all that jazz based on the words in the record you [mis-]typed. note the optionally. if you want, we'll just return NXDOMAIN. you can configure this. you can configure it per-ip, per-prefix, etc. now, on to what we do or could do with that data: we do not sell and have never sold NXDOMAIN data. nor do we register domains based on NXDOMAIN information. the non-OpenDNS company who sees the original request that produced the NXDOMAIN that failed (which may or may not even be a valid hostname) is our advertising partner. they get that data after we've transformed the original request into their API to send to them as keywords so they may return appropriate and relevant ads. so, to recap: nope, we don't sell NXDOMAIN data. we don't sell any other data either. yes, some revenue comes from typos/mistakes. you knew that already. yes, you can even change that behavior and just get NXDOMAIN. that means your typos gain us nothing. you get our service for free. yes, you opt-in to our service in the first place. yes, we have a privacy policy that says this better than i can. > What you really want to look at is privacy policy. Not all of the good > guys are actually good guys in that respect. http://www.opendns.com/privacy/ it looks pretty good to me. i read it before i agreed to employment. -- billf >at< opendns.com // opendns network engineering p.s. since i rarely if ever post, i have to make the shameless, shameless plug: <peering@opendns.com>. we're in peeringdb too.
On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 10:09 PM, bill fumerola <billf@mu.org> wrote:
[ disclaimer: i work for opendns. ]
On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 05:53:15PM -0400, Martin Hannigan wrote:
[ snip ]
so, to recap: nope, we don't sell NXDOMAIN data. we don't sell any other data either.
I don't think that policy includes derivative works. If you are saying that you don't sell any data at all, feel free to say that. -M<
participants (10)
-
bill fumerola -
Christopher Morrow -
David Ulevitch -
Martin Hannigan -
michael.dillon＠bt.com -
Paul Vixie -
Ray Demain -
Ross Vandegrift -
Steve Atkins -
Tomas L. Byrnes