Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic?
Leo Bicknell <bicknell@ufp.org> wrote:
There really isn't a lot of choice, 2 providers, and some minor choice in how much speed you want to pay for with each one.
Does that mean no CLECs like Covad or DSL.net who colocate in the AT&T CO, rent unbundled dry copper pairs and take it up from there themselves? Does that mean no ISPs who buy/rent last+middle mile transport from AT&T ADSL network at Layer 2 (ATM) and provide their own IP layer? MS
In a message written on Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 04:44:04PM +0000, Michael Sokolov wrote:
Does that mean no CLECs like Covad or DSL.net who colocate in the AT&T CO, rent unbundled dry copper pairs and take it up from there themselves?
Does that mean no ISPs who buy/rent last+middle mile transport from AT&T ADSL network at Layer 2 (ATM) and provide their own IP layer?
In my area, from the research I have done, no. Part of the reason for this is "U-Verse" is FTTN, Fiber to the Node. AT&T has run fiber to my neighborhood, I believe the node in my case is about 1000 feet away (I drive past it on the way out). The electronics sit there, so the old model of colocating in the CO and getting the dry pair is no longer possible, the copper stops at the node and it's a largeish (6' wide, 3' deep, 5' tall) cabinet, so there's no colo. The other model of the last mile being done by AT&T and handed off over PPoE or ATM is still possible with this design, but to my knowledge there are no local CLEC's that do that here, and I do not know why. Just to be sure I just went to www.megapath.com (they bought DSL.net and Covad) and put in my address. I got back: Available Services for: <address redacted> Available broadband type(s): T1 , IDSL , DDSL , Cable , ADSL Duet Voice and Data service is available at this location My experience is when they can't give you prices online they don't actually offer any consumer services and are simply going to try and sell you a T1 for $750 a month. If enough people care I might call, or if there is a Megapath person on here who can contact me off list I can give them my address and they can tell me/us what is really possible. -- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/
On Sep 17, 2010, at 9:44 AM, Michael Sokolov wrote:
Leo Bicknell <bicknell@ufp.org> wrote:
There really isn't a lot of choice, 2 providers, and some minor choice in how much speed you want to pay for with each one.
Does that mean no CLECs like Covad or DSL.net who colocate in the AT&T CO, rent unbundled dry copper pairs and take it up from there themselves?
Does that mean no ISPs who buy/rent last+middle mile transport from AT&T ADSL network at Layer 2 (ATM) and provide their own IP layer?
MS
In many metros, yes. Owen
In a message written on Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 04:44:04PM +0000, Michael Sokolov wrote:
Does that mean no CLECs like Covad or DSL.net who colocate in the AT&T CO, rent unbundled dry copper pairs and take it up from there themselves?
I found someone off list with access to Megapath's "Partner Portal" where they can get the real scoop, and did that for my specific location. Short form: They can resell AT&T's lower speed ADSL (but not their top speeds) at a markup. They can resell Comcast's cable modem service at a markup. They can offer IDSL (ISDN Speeds) or SDSL from the actual CO, which they claim is 19k feet away, my google maps says 23k feet away. The estimate is I could get 768k symmetric at that distance, which would mean 1/10th the bandwidth I have now at approximately 5 times the cost I have now. So I'm sure if you're a government bean counter or AT&T lobbyest there is "competition" out of my CO, and I have options. As a consumer looking at the practical side of it I see no options, I have a Telco or Cable company, with basically the same offerings at the same speed at the same prices. YMMV, likely a lot with where you live. -- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/
I have the same problem getting decent fiber out here. They keep wanting to do a loop clear back to the other side of the state. I will jsut keep building out my towers to towns where I know I can co-lo or get QMOE at least. On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Leo Bicknell <bicknell@ufp.org> wrote:
In a message written on Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 04:44:04PM +0000, Michael Sokolov wrote:
Does that mean no CLECs like Covad or DSL.net who colocate in the AT&T CO, rent unbundled dry copper pairs and take it up from there themselves?
I found someone off list with access to Megapath's "Partner Portal" where they can get the real scoop, and did that for my specific location.
Short form: They can resell AT&T's lower speed ADSL (but not their top speeds) at a markup.
They can resell Comcast's cable modem service at a markup.
They can offer IDSL (ISDN Speeds) or SDSL from the actual CO, which they claim is 19k feet away, my google maps says 23k feet away. The estimate is I could get 768k symmetric at that distance, which would mean 1/10th the bandwidth I have now at approximately 5 times the cost I have now.
So I'm sure if you're a government bean counter or AT&T lobbyest there is "competition" out of my CO, and I have options. As a consumer looking at the practical side of it I see no options, I have a Telco or Cable company, with basically the same offerings at the same speed at the same prices.
YMMV, likely a lot with where you live.
-- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/
Michael Sokolov wrote:
Leo Bicknell <bicknell@ufp.org> wrote:
There really isn't a lot of choice, 2 providers, and some minor choice in how much speed you want to pay for with each one.
Does that mean no CLECs like Covad or DSL.net who colocate in the AT&T CO, rent unbundled dry copper pairs and take it up from there themselves?
Does that mean no ISPs who buy/rent last+middle mile transport from AT&T ADSL network at Layer 2 (ATM) and provide their own IP layer?
MS
There used to be an abundance of small ISPs, but the FCC changed all that in 2005 when they eliminated "Line Sharing". "The Federal Communications Commission on Friday voted to reclassify DSL broadband service, thus freeing phone companies of regulations that require them to share their infrastructure with Internet service providers. DSL will now be considered an "information service" instead of a "telecommunications service," a distinction that puts DSL in line with the classification of cable modem services. The change in semantics was expected after the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling in the Brand X case just five weeks ago. The court's decision upheld the FCC's classification of cable modem service as an information service. Now the phone companies and the cable companies are exempt from "common carrier" rules that require them to share their infrastructure with Internet service providers." http://news.cnet.com/FCC-changes-DSL-classification/2100-1034_3-5820713.html
participants (5)
-
Jeromie Reeves -
Leo Bicknell -
Michael Painter -
msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG -
Owen DeLong