RE: DDOS attacks and Large ISPs doing NAT?
Unless Im mistaken (entirely possible), an IP enabled phone has 2 distinct and separate "stacks", the IP stack and the "phone" stack. As I said, in a NAT'd scenario the IP stack will never see an unsolicited request and hence not respond to it. The phone side of course will ring when called. Duh. GPRS <> VoIP (yet) Jm
-----Original Message----- From: Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu [mailto:Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 11:26 AM To: Mansey, Jon Cc: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: DDOS attacks and Large ISPs doing NAT?
On Thu, 02 May 2002 11:06:33 PDT, "Mansey, Jon" said:
The DDOS discussion is specifically referring to a "live" syn or syn/ack attack from hosts that respond to connection requests. A NAT'd cell phone wont, cant ever, respond to an unsolicited connection request.
*RING*!! *RING*!! Oh, I'm sorry, that was the clue phone ringing - it couldn't be your phone, since it wouldn't answer an unsolicited connection request....
You were saying?
(To fill in the blanks - get a trojan loaded into the cellphone/PDA combo, and then send it a page telling it who/what to attack).
-- Valdis Kletnieks Computer Systems Senior Engineer Virginia Tech
On Thu, 02 May 2002 11:32:48 PDT, "Mansey, Jon" said:
As I said, in a NAT'd scenario the IP stack will never see an unsolicited request and hence not respond to it.
The phone side of course will ring when called. Duh.
That's the *point*. You hand the phone a trojan/virus/whatever when it's making an OUTBOUND connection on the NAT side (for instance, if the PDA side is checking mail, feed it a trojaned piece of mail). You then have the trojan drop you a note "Oh, and my phone number is XXX-YYYY". Then, when it's time to attack somebody, you send the phone a page that tells the trojan "Hey XXX-YYYY, wake up and pound on victim address <whatever>". With proper encoding of the page, the phone's owner may even just say "Damn, more <bleeping> Korean spam in characters I can't read", and not notice that 45 seconds later, the phone starts chirping away by itself.... The point is that you can contact the phone via *non-NAT* means and have it launch an attack - the fact you can't wake it up via NAT can be worked around. -- Valdis Kletnieks Computer Systems Senior Engineer Virginia Tech
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