On the subject of host security issues and spam, try doing a search of the Usenet archive for '"Net Access Corporation" spam'. You get 328 results. And those are just the spams which people have traced to NAC, never mind the millions of untraced ones....

From: Sean Donelan <sean@donelan.com> To: Alex Rubenstein <alex@nac.net> CC: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Its not just Spam and DDOS anymore (was Re: OT: Re: User negligence?) Date: Sun, 27 Jul 2003 02:39:31 -0400 (EDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from mc4-f40.law16.hotmail.com ([65.54.237.175]) by mc4-s7.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Sat, 26 Jul 2003 23:41:26 -0700 Received: from trapdoor.merit.edu ([198.108.1.26]) by mc4-f40.law16.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Sat, 26 Jul 2003 23:40:45 -0700 Received: by trapdoor.merit.edu (Postfix)id 997F191229; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 02:39:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by trapdoor.merit.edu (Postfix, from userid 56)id 6B69C9122B; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 02:39:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from segue.merit.edu (segue.merit.edu [198.108.1.41])by trapdoor.merit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90F4B91229for <nanog@trapdoor.merit.edu>; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 02:39:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by segue.merit.edu (Postfix)id 6BA575DF03; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 02:39:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from clifden.donelan.com (clifden.donelan.com [199.34.53.180])by segue.merit.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DCDC5DEE1for <nanog@merit.edu>; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 02:39:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sean (helo=localhost)by clifden.donelan.com with local-esmtp (Exim 3.34 #3)id 19gfBr-00044I-00; Sun, 27 Jul 2003 02:39:31 -0400 X-Message-Info: MxAodtZPLiQ6HPHOc8rBiXjgUFkT69DC Delivered-To: nanog-outgoing@trapdoor.merit.edu Delivered-To: nanog@trapdoor.merit.edu Delivered-To: nanog@merit.edu In-Reply-To: <Pine.WNT.4.43.0307270146050.200-100000@TEMPEST.hq.nac.net> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0307270218570.15622-100000@clifden.donelan.com> Sender: owner-nanog@merit.edu Precedence: bulk Errors-To: owner-nanog-outgoing@merit.edu X-Loop: nanog Return-Path: owner-nanog@merit.edu X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jul 2003 06:40:45.0882 (UTC) FILETIME=[0223E9A0:01C3540A]

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003, Alex Rubenstein wrote:

...

I think there is confusion here. Yep. No problem, I think we've cleared it up.

...

The banks are making the claim, that, if you the user, has an infected PC, that is compromised by an 3lit3 h4x0r, and your password to your bank account is compromised, then the bank is not responsible.

That is what you are saying, Sean?

I posted the dots, but failed to explicitly connect them.

People have been talking about DDOS, spammers and the underground economy.

Folks, its not underground any more. The criminals are using trojans to steal real money from real people now.

Firewalls can't stop it, ISPs can't stop it. Its a *HOST* security issue.

For most home users the choices are get Microsoft to fix its software, or buy a Macintosh (hide Unix under the hood). For an extra $20 Dell will pre-configure the system security settings for business purchasers; but home users are still on their own.

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