Farrell,Bob wrote:

You would if you knew how hard the tests were. ( not counting Microsoft of course)

the tests for a phd in physics are hard. and a very noted net engineer we all know and deeply respect passed them (and did the thesis) and got their phd in physics. but, as they said just a couple of weeks ago, and on this very subject, "would you want me running a nuclear reactor?" hell no! randy

I think certs provide two things. One, the ability to show that you know what you are doing ( agreed grey area on that one ) , but also the commitment for one to better themselves..... someone I would look at in the hiring process first. Any/every applicant still goes through a rigorous interview process, and the uncertified sometimes win out. Depends on the applicant.

Uncertified people absolutely MUST have the commitment to better themselves since they do their learning in an environment where there are fewer crutches like books, courses, etc. Often they are uncertified because by the time the first courses come out, these uncertified people already have the technical knowledge that the course tries to provide. On the other hand, there are people out there who are good at memorizing information well enough to pass exams but not so good at retaining that information and applying it in a real-world environment. These people are more common than you might think, and that is one reason why certification has gotten a bad name. When the university education system reached the form that it has today, they tried to weed out this type of person by requiring a doctoral candidate to pass through the gauntlet of oral exams in front of a panel of recognized experts in the field. Certification programs don't include that step so we must do it ourselves at job interview time. --Michael Dillon

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007, Daniel J McDonald wrote:

The CCIE Lab used to be like an oral exam. Two days, pretty much one-on-one with two proctors. There were four guys in the facility when I took the lab, and I didn't see them at all other than the 30 minute orientation to the lab and for an hour at supper (supervised by the proctors). I understand it has shrunk significantly now.

CCIE salaries have not increased that much in the past 3 years. Of the 14,000+ CCIEs: http://www.cisco.com/web/learning/le3/ccie/certified_ccies/worldwide.html in 2004 the average salary was $102K: http://tcpmag.com/salarysurveys/article.asp?EditorialsID=257 whereas in 2007 it is now closer to $90K: http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Certification=Cisco_Certified_Internetwo... although here they list it here as $116K: http://www.bradreese.com/compensation-database.htm -Hank