Re: [routing-wg]BGP Update Report
On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 12:32:57PM +0200, Oliver Bartels wrote:
Hi Gert, On Fri, 8 Sep 2006 18:06:00 +0200, Gert Doering wrote:
Ummm, well, this is a damn fast plane if it will reach another continent 1843 times per day (or even "per week")... - which should be the only time the BGP announcement moves.
Sounds more like "the BGP-follows-plane system has some stability problems".
Nack.
Probably they are using low or medium earth orbit satellites, which _are_ damn fast in orbit. Otherwise the round trip time would be unacceptably high.
As the whole thing is 3D, some of them might have contact to ground stations on this or the other side of the great lake, depending on their 3D position, even thru the plane travels on a well defined track (probably a 3D circle, too) in just one direction only.
Ceterum censeo: Nevertheless this moving-clients application shows some demand for a true-location-independend IP-addresses announcement feature (provider independend "roaming") in IPv6, as in v4 (even thru this isn't the "standard" way, but Connexion is anything but standard). Shim etc. is not sufficient ...
One might also imagine that more globally-friendly way to implement this would have been to build a network (VPN would be adequate) between the ground stations and assign each plane a prefix out of a block whose subnets are only dynamically advertsed within that network/VPN. Doing that would prevent the rest of the global Internet from having to track 1000+ routing changes per prefix per day as satellite handoffs are performed. --Vince
Vince Fuller writes:
On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 12:32:57PM +0200, Oliver Bartels wrote:
Ceterum censeo: Nevertheless this moving-clients application shows some demand for a true-location-independend IP-addresses announcement feature (provider independend "roaming") in IPv6, as in v4 (even thru this isn't the "standard" way, but Connexion is anything but standard). Shim etc. is not sufficient ...
Ehm, well, Connexion by Boeing is maybe not such a good example for this demand. Leaving aside the question whether there is a business case, I remain unconvinced that using BGP for mobility is even worth the effort. It is obvious that it "worked" for Boeing in IPv4, for some value of "worked", but the touted delay improvements on the terrestrial ISP path (ground station - user's "home" ISP) are probably lost in the noise compared to the 300ms of geostationary. But, hey, it's free - just deaggregate a few /19's worth of "PA" (what's that?) space into /24 and annouce and re-announce at will. Vince has an outline of an excellent solution that would have avoided all the load on the global routing system with (at least) the same performance (provided that the single network/VPN is announced to the Internet from good locations on multiple continents):
One might also imagine that more globally-friendly way to implement this would have been to build a network (VPN would be adequate) between the ground stations and assign each plane a prefix out of a block whose subnets are only dynamically advertsed within that network/VPN. Doing that would prevent the rest of the global Internet from having to track 1000+ routing changes per prefix per day as satellite handoffs are performed.
But that would have cost money! Probably just 1% of the marketing budget of the project or 3% of the cost of equipping a single plane with the "bump" for the antenna, but why bother? With IPv4 you get away with advertising de-aggregated /24s from PA space. At one of the Boeing presentations (NANOG or RIPE) I asked the presenter how they coped with ISPs who filter. Instead of responding, he asked me back "are you from AS3303"?. From which I deduce that there are about two ISPs left who filter such more-specifics (AS3303 and us :-). IMHO Connexion by Boeing's BGP hack, while cool, is a good example of an abomination that should have been avoided by having slightly stronger incentives against polluting the global routing system. Where's Sean Doran when you need him? -- Simon (AS559).
participants (2)
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Simon Leinen -
Vince Fuller