Broadband ISPs taxed for "generating light energy"
.. because they provide internet over fiber optic cables, which work by sending pulses of light down the cable to push packets .. http://www.hindu.com/2006/10/10/stories/2006101012450400.htm So they get slapped with tax + penalties of INR 241.8 million. ________________ Broadband providers accused of tax evasion Special Correspondent Commercial Tax Department serves notice on Airtel # Firms accused of evading tax on sale of `light energy' # Loss to State exchequer estimated at Rs. 1,200 crore Bangalore: The Commercial Tax Department has served a notice on Airtel, owned by Bharti Televentures Ltd., seeking payment of Rs. 24.18 crore as tax, interest and penalty for the sale of `light energy' to its customers for providing broadband through optical fibre cables (OFC). The department has been investigating alleged tax evasion by OFC broadband providers, both in the public and private sectors, for selling light energy to customers. "While the assessment on Airtel was completed and a notice issued to it for alleged tax evasion during the year 2005-06, no assessment has been concluded on other OFC broadband providers," A.K. Chitaguppi, Deputy Commissioner of Commercial Taxes, said. Other OFC broadband providers facing tax evasion charges are public sector BSNL and private sector VSNL, Reliance, Tata Teleservices and Sify. The Commercial Tax Department has estimated a loss of Rs. 1,200 crore to the State exchequer in this regard since OFC broadband providers have been operating in the State for several years. Mr. Chitaguppi said that OFC operates on light energy, which is artificially created by the OFC providers and sold to customers for the purpose of data transmission and information, on the OFC broadband line. Without such energy, data or information cannot be transmitted. "Whoever sells light energy is liable to pay VAT as it comes under the category of goods, and hence its sale constitutes taxable turnover attracting VAT at 12.5 per cent," he said. Bharti Televentures had approached the Karnataka High Court seeking to quash the demand notice, but failed to get a stay when the case was heard by Justice Shantanu Goudar on September 1. The judge rejected Bharti's plea seeking issue of an injunction against any initiatives from the Commercial Tax Department on the recovery of the tax. Bharti Televentures had contended in the High Court that re-assessment orders passed by State tax officials and the issue of demand notice was not valid as the disputed activity fell under the provision of service tax levied by the Union Government and did not attract VAT. The High Court is expected to take up the case for hearing again in the next few days. `Business venture' The Commercial Tax Department has argued that the OFC broadband operators are running a business venture after investing thousands of crores to put in place a state-of-the-art set-up to artificially generate light energy and supply it to its customers for their data transmission work. The characteristics of the light energy constitute a moveable property, which has to be categorised as `goods' as per the norms laid down by the Supreme Court. "In the process of data transmission, other than light energy, no other elements are involved and the customers are paying for the same. This proves that light energy constitutes goods, which is liable for levy of tax. Therefore, the State has every legal competence and jurisdiction to tax it," the department has contended. It has taken serious note of the non-payment of taxes by the broadband service providers. "Reporting a turnover and then claiming exemption is one thing. But some of the OFC operators don't even report their turnovers," Mr. Chitaguppi alleged.
"In the process of data transmission, other than light energy, no other elements are involved and the customers are paying for the same. This proves that light energy constitutes goods, which is liable for levy of tax. Therefore, the State has every legal competence and jurisdiction to tax it," the department has contended.
Sounds reasonable to me. Since the sale of energy is usually measured in kilowatt-hours, how many kwh of energy is transmitted across the average optical fibre before it reaches the powereda mplifier in the destination switch/router? I'd like to see some hard numbers on this. The light shining down optical fibres is laser light. There exist medical devices which are powered by laser light shining through the tissues. There are also some types of satellite devices which can receive power from ground-based laser beams. The crux of this issue is the actual measurement of power transmitted which will turn out to be very small. --Michael Dillon
> Sounds reasonable to me. Since the sale of energy is > usually measured in kilowatt-hours, how many kwh of > energy is transmitted across the average optical fibre > before it reaches the powereda mplifier in the destination > switch/router? Also, remember, it's _net_ energy delivered which matters... I'm sure the customer is delivering light back toward the ISP as well. -Bill
Reasonable? I think you mean "justifiable". On 10/10/06, Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net> wrote:
> Sounds reasonable to me. Since the sale of energy is > usually measured in kilowatt-hours, how many kwh of > energy is transmitted across the average optical fibre > before it reaches the powereda mplifier in the destination > switch/router?
Also, remember, it's _net_ energy delivered which matters... I'm sure the customer is delivering light back toward the ISP as well.
-Bill
On Oct 10, 2006, at 8:08 AM, Bill Woodcock wrote:
Sounds reasonable to me. Since the sale of energy is usually measured in kilowatt-hours, how many kwh of energy is transmitted across the average optical fibre before it reaches the powereda mplifier in the destination switch/router?
Also, remember, it's _net_ energy delivered which matters... I'm sure the customer is delivering light back toward the ISP as well.
-Bill
From my reading of the article, it appears that they are attempting to tax at 12.5 percent, the ISPs entire service revenue because that revenue is derived from the delivery of light energy, thus making the "IP service" actually a "utility product". It looks like the tax department is arguing that what is currently being billed/taxed as a service is actually a product and such product should be subject to VAT. It would be akin to California adding 7.75% to my ISP bill for sales tax. Owen
Michael.Dillon@btradianz.com wrote:
.. Sounds reasonable to me. Since the sale of energy is usually measured in kilowatt-hours, how many kwh of energy is transmitted across the average optical fibre before it reaches the powereda mplifier in the destination switch/router?
I'd like to see some hard numbers on this.
The light shining down optical fibres is laser light. There exist medical devices which are powered by laser light shining through the tissues. There are also some types of satellite devices which can receive power from ground-based laser beams. The crux of this issue is the actual measurement of power transmitted which will turn out to be very small.
--Michael Dillon
A Cisco ZX GBIC produces a max of 4.77 dBm (or less than 4mw). 4mw corresponds to 35 watt hours in one year. However, since the customer must beam back light as part of the exchange then you must track the number of pulses in both directions and determine the difference. Some days the customer gets more energy and some days it doesn't. That should affect the tax.
Well there's of course back taxes charged for a period of ~ 3 years or more, plus interest and late payment penalties on those back taxes On 10/10/06, Roy <r.engehausen@gmail.com> wrote:
A Cisco ZX GBIC produces a max of 4.77 dBm (or less than 4mw). 4mw corresponds to 35 watt hours in one year.
However, since the customer must beam back light as part of the exchange then you must track the number of pulses in both directions and determine the difference. Some days the customer gets more energy and some days it doesn't. That should affect the tax.
-- Suresh Ramasubramanian (ops.lists@gmail.com)
Feh. Any government with real tax mojo will tax both of them on the gross, not the net. This isn't the milquetoast VAT, you know. On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, Roy wrote:
However, since the customer must beam back light as part of the exchange then you must track the number of pulses in both directions and determine the difference. Some days the customer gets more energy and some days it doesn't. That should affect the tax.
(OBSerious: I bet it's not true.) -- http://www.icannwatch.org Personal Blog: http://www.discourse.net A. Michael Froomkin | Professor of Law | froomkin@law.tm U. Miami School of Law, P.O. Box 248087, Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA +1 (305) 284-4285 | +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax) | http://www.law.tm -->It's warm here.<--
A Cisco ZX GBIC produces a max of 4.77 dBm (or less than 4mw). 4mw corresponds to 35 watt hours in one year.
.035 kwh per year costs 34.5 cents per year using the average US electricity cost in March 2006 of 9.86 cents/kwh. Since the energy flow could be bidirectional, one of the two parties receives a net benefit of up to 34.5 cents. If a broadband provider offers customers a free gift such as a hat, does this make them into a hat retailer for tax purposes? --Michael Dillon
Notice the date: October 10. That is the Indian equivalent of our April 1. Joe owner-nanog@merit.edu wrote on 10/10/2006 10:28:13 AM:
.. because they provide internet over fiber optic cables, which workby
pulses of light down the cable to push packets ..
http://www.hindu.com/2006/10/10/stories/2006101012450400.htm
So they get slapped with tax + penalties of INR 241.8 million.
________________
Broadband providers accused of tax evasion
Special Correspondent
Commercial Tax Department serves notice on Airtel
# Firms accused of evading tax on sale of `light energy' # Loss to State exchequer estimated at Rs. 1,200 crore
Bangalore: The Commercial Tax Department has served a notice on Airtel, owned by Bharti Televentures Ltd., seeking payment of Rs. 24.18 crore as tax, interest and penalty for the sale of `light energy' to its customers for providing broadband through optical fibre cables (OFC).
The department has been investigating alleged tax evasion by OFC broadband providers, both in the public and private sectors, for selling
customers. "While the assessment on Airtel was completed and a notice issued to it for alleged tax evasion during the year 2005-06, no assessment has been concluded on other OFC broadband providers," A.K. Chitaguppi, Deputy Commissioner of Commercial Taxes, said. Other OFC broadband providers facing tax evasion charges are public sector BSNL and private sector VSNL, Reliance, Tata Teleservices and Sify.
The Commercial Tax Department has estimated a loss of Rs. 1,200 crore to the State exchequer in this regard since OFC broadband providers have been operating in the State for several years.
Mr. Chitaguppi said that OFC operates on light energy, which is artificially created by the OFC providers and sold to customers for the purpose of data transmission and information, on the OFC broadband line. Without such energy, data or information cannot be transmitted.
"Whoever sells light energy is liable to pay VAT as it comes under the category of goods, and hence its sale constitutes taxable turnover attracting VAT at 12.5 per cent," he said.
Bharti Televentures had approached the Karnataka High Court seeking to quash the demand notice, but failed to get a stay when the case was heard by Justice Shantanu Goudar on September 1. The judge rejected Bharti's plea seeking issue of an injunction against any initiatives from the Commercial Tax Department on the recovery of the tax.
Bharti Televentures had contended in the High Court that re-assessment orders passed by State tax officials and the issue of demand notice was not valid as the disputed activity fell under the provision of service tax levied by
Union Government and did not attract VAT. The High Court is expectedto take up the case for hearing again in the next few days.
`Business venture'
The Commercial Tax Department has argued that the OFC broadband operators are running a business venture after investing thousands of crores to put in
a state-of-the-art set-up to artificially generate light energy and supply it to its customers for their data transmission work. The characteristics of the light energy constitute a moveable property, which has to be categorised as `goods' as per the norms laid down by the Supreme Court. "In the process of data transmission, other than light energy, no other elements are involved and the customers are paying for the same. This proves that light energy constitutes goods, which is liable for levy of tax. Therefore, the State has every legal competence and jurisdiction to tax it," the department has contended.
It has taken serious note of the non-payment of taxes by the broadband service providers. "Reporting a turnover and then claiming exemption is one
sending lightenergy to the place thing. But
some of the OFC operators don't even report their turnovers," Mr. Chitaguppi alleged.
On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 11:36:41AM -0400, Joe Loiacono wrote:
Notice the date: October 10. That is the Indian equivalent of our April 1.
Ah. Culture clash. Therefore the story can be relegated to the same coop as the IP-carrying pigeons. The sole justification for asking this is to help us all remember this for any further similar postings that might otherwise cause lengthy and weighty discussions on something so lightweight. Why is 10 October their 01 April? Thanks. -- Joe Yao ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This message is not an official statement of OSIS Center policies.
On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 13:57:17 -0400, Joseph S D Yao <jsdy@center.osis.gov> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 11:36:41AM -0400, Joe Loiacono wrote:
Notice the date: October 10. That is the Indian equivalent of our April 1.
Ah. Culture clash. Therefore the story can be relegated to the same coop as the IP-carrying pigeons.
The sole justification for asking this is to help us all remember this for any further similar postings that might otherwise cause lengthy and weighty discussions on something so lightweight.
Why is 10 October their 01 April?
It's 10/10, which if viewed as the binary number 1010 is 10 base 10. Surely that has to mean something! (Well, I just made it up, but it sounds goodd....) --Steven M. Bellovin, http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb
On Wed, Oct 11, 2006 at 02:16:05PM -0400, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: ...
It's 10/10, which if viewed as the binary number 1010 is 10 base 10. Surely that has to mean something! (Well, I just made it up, but it sounds goodd....) ...
Steve, think about it. For all base N, N > 1, 10 base 10 is 10. 10/10 [I did notice that] is also [when distributed] half of 20/20, so perhaps half-sighted, or half-sensical. But now we are well and truly OT and may be stoned with virtual rocks. -- Joe Yao ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This message is not an official statement of OSIS Center policies.
> Notice the date: October 10. That is the Indian equivalent of our April 1. According to http://www.april-fools.us/history-april-fools.htm, the Indian equivalent of April fools day is the Huli festival on March 31. jaap
On 10/11/06, Joseph S D Yao <jsdy@center.osis.gov> wrote:
Why is 10 October their 01 April?
Looks like you got october-fooled, Mr.Yao :) 10 October is just a date like any other .. those of us in India who want to play tricks on our friends stick to 4/1 like everybody else -- Suresh Ramasubramanian (ops.lists@gmail.com)
A rather humorous article from a rhetorical perspective. The reporter emphasizes the innocence of generating light while ignoring its commercial aspects. Those light pulses are very valuable to recipients. This tax seems to parallel the U.S. Federal Excise Tax on photons and electrons (i.e., telephone service). I don't see anything unusual here other than a weak argument against taxing authority. If you want to argue against the concept of taxation, be my guest. But let's not obfuscate the real issue here. Tax evasion often results in assessment of hugh penalties. Just ask Spiro Agnew or Al Capone. This is news? matthew black california state university, long beach On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 19:58:13 +0530 Suresh Ramasubramanian <ops.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
.. because they provide internet over fiber optic cables, which work by sending pulses of light down the cable to push packets ..
http://www.hindu.com/2006/10/10/stories/2006101012450400.htm
So they get slapped with tax + penalties of INR 241.8 million.
________________
Broadband providers accused of tax evasion
Special Correspondent
Commercial Tax Department serves notice on Airtel
# Firms accused of evading tax on sale of `light energy' # Loss to State exchequer estimated at Rs. 1,200 crore
Bangalore: The Commercial Tax Department has served a notice on Airtel, owned by Bharti Televentures Ltd., seeking payment of Rs. 24.18 crore as tax, interest and penalty for the sale of `light energy' to its customers for providing broadband through optical fibre cables (OFC).
The department has been investigating alleged tax evasion by OFC broadband providers, both in the public and private sectors, for selling light energy to customers. "While the assessment on Airtel was completed and a notice issued to it for alleged tax evasion during the year 2005-06, no assessment has been concluded on other OFC broadband providers," A.K. Chitaguppi, Deputy Commissioner of Commercial Taxes, said. Other OFC broadband providers facing tax evasion charges are public sector BSNL and private sector VSNL, Reliance, Tata Teleservices and Sify.
The Commercial Tax Department has estimated a loss of Rs. 1,200 crore to the State exchequer in this regard since OFC broadband providers have been operating in the State for several years.
Mr. Chitaguppi said that OFC operates on light energy, which is artificially created by the OFC providers and sold to customers for the purpose of data transmission and information, on the OFC broadband line. Without such energy, data or information cannot be transmitted.
"Whoever sells light energy is liable to pay VAT as it comes under the category of goods, and hence its sale constitutes taxable turnover attracting VAT at 12.5 per cent," he said.
Bharti Televentures had approached the Karnataka High Court seeking to quash the demand notice, but failed to get a stay when the case was heard by Justice Shantanu Goudar on September 1. The judge rejected Bharti's plea seeking issue of an injunction against any initiatives from the Commercial Tax Department on the recovery of the tax.
Bharti Televentures had contended in the High Court that re-assessment orders passed by State tax officials and the issue of demand notice was not valid as the disputed activity fell under the provision of service tax levied by the Union Government and did not attract VAT. The High Court is expected to take up the case for hearing again in the next few days.
`Business venture'
The Commercial Tax Department has argued that the OFC broadband operators are running a business venture after investing thousands of crores to put in place a state-of-the-art set-up to artificially generate light energy and supply it to its customers for their data transmission work. The characteristics of the light energy constitute a moveable property, which has to be categorised as `goods' as per the norms laid down by the Supreme Court. "In the process of data transmission, other than light energy, no other elements are involved and the customers are paying for the same. This proves that light energy constitutes goods, which is liable for levy of tax. Therefore, the State has every legal competence and jurisdiction to tax it," the department has contended.
It has taken serious note of the non-payment of taxes by the broadband service providers. "Reporting a turnover and then claiming exemption is one thing. But some of the OFC operators don't even report their turnovers," Mr. Chitaguppi alleged.
participants (12)
-
Alexander Harrowell
-
Bill Woodcock
-
Jaap Akkerhuis
-
Joe Loiacono
-
Joseph S D Yao
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Matthew Black
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Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law
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Michael.Dillon@btradianz.com
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Owen DeLong
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Roy
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Steven M. Bellovin
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Suresh Ramasubramanian