RE: Dialup congestion and winter weather (fwd)
1) I'm my own ISP, dialing into my own modem banks. I am reasonably confident that I know what my own systems are doing. They are not interacting as you describe. 2) Local loop-back tests show that my servers see full bandwidth, on their last mile. Similar testing on the NC "last mile" show the bandwidth contraints. Since the bandwidth is constrained on the "last mile", the LD trunk behavior is irrelevent. Although, that was a probability, until I did the tests. 3) You really wouldn't believe the telco attachment equipment I carry in the *other* half of my lap-top case. On the road, I can attach to the tin-cans-n-string communications network, if I have to. Even if it does add 15 pounds to the carry weight<g>. -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Grupe [mailto:cgrupe@nortelnetworks.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 7:56 AM To: Roeland Meyer; 'multics@ruserved.com'; nanog@merit.edu Subject: RE: Dialup congestion and winter weather (fwd) He Sent,
-----Original Message----- From: Roeland Meyer [mailto:rmeyer@mhsc.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 12:53 AM To: 'multics@ruserved.com'; nanog@merit.edu Subject: RE: Dialup congestion and winter weather (fwd)
That isn't the only issue. I've just found that Southern Bell does bandwidth limiting on their residential customers. Most folks would never know the difference, but when v.90 modems start consistantly connecting at 14.4K, or
less, then I know that the telco is only allowing 32K per voice channel (rather than the usual 64K). BTW, that was using AT&T universal LD from Graham, NC, to Livermore, CA. I only ever got full-speed late at night.
Come on, The ISP is not going to write an init script for their modems to permanently have them connect at 14.4. Telco's don't turn down the PCM rate on dial up's to 32KBps either... Telco's (RBOC's) have a separate (unregulated) ISP, which handles dial up traffic. The regulated side is the switched side (voice switch).... One has nothing to do with the other (usually union workers on the regulated side, and non-union on the unregulated side). So to prove your point, the dial side (ISP non-union) would call the CO's and have the Switchman changed the line card to an ADPCM (32Kbps) card at the switch, and the ISP sets their modems to connect at 14.4Kbps. No way Jose! Some CLEC's are running their line cards using ADPCM (32Kbps) and over an ATM backbone. The RBOC's at this time are still using typical PCM (64Kbps) per channel, for the line cards (unless using BRI). The problem you may be experiencing is with the inter switched trunks, or coming in a span that has timing slips, Errored Seconds, and severely errored seconds, etc. Especially if you are going LD from NC to CA. Christopher Grupe Sr. Sales Engineer Nortel Networks, Service Provider & Carrier cgrupe@nortelnetworks.com I speak for myself!
Also sprach Roeland Meyer
1) I'm my own ISP, dialing into my own modem banks. I am reasonably confident that I know what my own systems are doing. They are not interacting as you describe.
Indeed...modems don't need to be set to 14.4 to negotiate slower speeds on ADPCM lines (as I'm sure you're aware, it seems Christopher is not) Not sure why I missed Christopher's response first time around...the rest is a reply to him.
Come on, The ISP is not going to write an init script for their modems to permanently have them connect at 14.4.
They don't have to...if the call is coming through a 32kbps ADPCM connection, the modems will negotiate down to 26.4 at best from what I have seen...possibly lower.
Telco's don't turn down the PCM rate on dial up's to 32KBps either...
Maybe not explicitely on dialups, but BellSouth does 32kbps ADPCM on a good number of customer lines...Frankfort, KY fought this for a *long* time (and may still be, I don't keep up with specific issues in specific locations with our tech support all that much)
Telco's (RBOC's) have a separate (unregulated) ISP, which handles dial up traffic.
WRONG! This is important for the non telco folks here to realize. This is not necessarily the case. My experience is primarily with BellSouth and BellSouth.Net. BellSouth.Net as an ISP is a product is BellSouth Telecommunications, the telephone company. There is a BellSouth.Net, Inc. BellSouth.Net Inc. does, essentially, contracting work, running modems, routers, switches, bandwidth, etc. and has only one customer, BellSouth Telecommunications. BellSouth Telecommunications takes the infrastructure built and maintained by BellSouth.Net Inc. and uses it to sell BellSouth.Net Internet Service. So, the ISP service is not necessarily a seperate affiliate, the same employees can, and often do, work for both BellSouth.Net the ISP, and BellSouth the telephone company. Does this all sound convoluted enough for you? I hope so, its essentially all a dodge by BellSouth to avoid most of the regulations for intermingling regulated and unregulated services. Fortunately, some ISPs and state utility commisions are starting to realize the dodge that has been made and fight it. BellSouth, true to form, thinks that they're above the law basically and has refused to admit that what they're doing is wrong.
The regulated side is the switched side (voice switch).... One has nothing to do with the other (usually union workers on the regulated side, and non-union on the unregulated side). So to prove your point, the dial side (ISP non-union) would call the CO's and have the Switchman changed the line card to an ADPCM (32Kbps) card at the switch, and the ISP sets their modems to connect at 14.4Kbps. No way Jose!
Having disproven two of your premises, I don't think its necessary to even address your conclusion.
The RBOC's at this time are still using typical PCM (64Kbps) per channel, for the line cards (unless using BRI).
Not always. -- Jeff McAdams Email: jeffm@iglou.com Head Network Administrator Voice: (502) 966-3848 IgLou Internet Services (800) 436-4456
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Roeland Meyer