Is it unreasonable of me to think it's awfully backwards of ANS.NET to require anyone getting a new CIDR block to physically call ANS's NOC and say "please listen to routes for this block from this AS"? First they told me "we don't trust BGP, so we use the various routing registries to build our routing tables." So I got our new block and our AS in radb.ra.net. A few days (and an ANS routing table update or two) go by, and still we have no connectivity to ANS. Then I get an email from them asking me to please call thier NOC to verify that they really should listen to our route. Isn't the point of BGP that you don't have to manually take care of routing updates? Are there other backbones I need to call to make sure they see our routes? ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jon Lewis <jlewis@fdt.net> | This space reserved for routing Network Administrator | update confirmations. Florida Digital Turnpike | ______http://inorganic5.fdt.net/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key____
Is it unreasonable of me to think it's awfully backwards of ANS.NET to require anyone getting a new CIDR block to physically call ANS's NOC and say "please listen to routes for this block from this AS"?
They obviously care even less about their network than we were previously led to belive. -- Jason Weisberger Chief Technology Officer SoftAware, Inc. - 310/305-0275 "Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees." -Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
Except that you are *wrong*. You'd have to register with the RADB (which your upstream should have done for you if you got address space from them). If you have your own CIDR block, then you should register with the RADB. Then make an AS-MACRO for yourself. Then tell yout transiter to include your AS-Macro in theirs; you're done. -- This is not a endorsement of the RADB or the RA's; moreover, it's just so you realize what is happening. See http://www.ra.net/ for more info. On Wed, 6 May 1998, Jason L. Weisberger wrote:
Is it unreasonable of me to think it's awfully backwards of ANS.NET to require anyone getting a new CIDR block to physically call ANS's NOC and say "please listen to routes for this block from this AS"?
They obviously care even less about their network than we were previously led to belive.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Atheism is a non-prophet organization. I route, therefore I am. Alex Rubenstein, alex@nac.net, KC2BUO, ISP/C Charter Member Father of the Network and Head Bottle-Washer Net Access Corporation, 9 Mt. Pleasant Tpk., Denville, NJ 07834 Don't choose a spineless ISP! We have more backbone! http://www.nac.net -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Folks, A bit of sanity..Prefix based filtering != not caring about your backbone. Quite the reverse. As far as trusting bgp goes, most times you can, sometimes you can't. Prefix filtering is for the times you can't. Everybody remembers that those times happen, right? I believe Randy is involved in an effort to standardize another way of doing the same thing. While the registries get better and these other efforts go forward, you do the job with what you have.. If your AS is in an appropriate (your upstream providers) autnum, and the route object for the prefix is in the <pick the registry of your choice> things work without a phone call. When they don't work, our noc does a good job of helping to figure out what the problem is and getting it fixed.. That exception is the process Jon is in. Jon, sorry that you had difficulty with this prefix. However, many many new prefixes get routed over ANS without anyone calling anyone. RobS
From: "Jason L. Weisberger" <jweis@softaware.com> Subject: Re: BGP & CIDR blocks
Is it unreasonable of me to think it's awfully backwards of ANS.NET to require anyone getting a new CIDR block to physically call ANS's NOC and say "please listen to routes for this block from this AS"?
They obviously care even less about their network than we were previously led to belive.
-- Jason Weisberger Chief Technology Officer SoftAware, Inc. - 310/305-0275
"Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees." -Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
If your AS is in an appropriate (your upstream providers) autnum, and the route object for the prefix is in the <pick the registry of your choice> things work without a phone call. When they don't work, our noc does a good job of helping to figure out what the problem is and getting it fixed.. That exception is the process Jon is in.
Then some of us out here away from bal;my Ann Arbor are even more confused than usual, hard as that may be to believe. Every time we have moved a new prefix into our AS, especially one which ANS knows from another provider, it is a manual operation irrespective of what we have registered in the IRR. And we are IRR fanatics, as few seem to remember. Heck, we are even paying cash to support the RADB services this annum. So what the heck are we doing wrongly? E.g. last month's move of PREPnet into AS2914. randy
On Wed, 6 May 1998, Rob Skrobola wrote:
If your AS is in an appropriate (your upstream providers) autnum, and the route object for the prefix is in the <pick the registry of your choice> things work without a phone call. When they don't work, our noc does a good job of helping to figure out what the problem is and getting it fixed.. That exception is the process Jon is in.
Jon, sorry that you had difficulty with this prefix. However, many many new prefixes get routed over ANS without anyone calling anyone.
It sounds like the snag I may have run into was an AS macro issue. The instructions at ra.net don't exactly make clear how important it seems to be to get into your backbone providers' AS macros. From talking to our upstreams and the ANS NOC, I had the impression all I had to do was register our AS and route(s) with one of the routing registries...and two ANS updates after doing so, I was left wondering what the deal was. Things appear fixed, yet I still don't know how to see if we're in our providers' AS macros. Is there an easy way (other than emailing the AS maintainer) to get the macro from radb.ra.net if you don't know the macro's name? ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jon Lewis <jlewis@fdt.net> | Unsolicited commercial e-mail will Network Administrator | be proof-read for $199/message. Florida Digital Turnpike | ______http://inorganic5.fdt.net/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key____
Jon, Jon Lewis writes:
Things appear fixed, yet I still don't know how to see if we're in our providers' AS macros. Is there an easy way (other than emailing the AS maintainer) to get the macro from radb.ra.net if you don't know the macro's name?
whois -h whois.ripe.net -r -a -i as-list YourAS (note: as far as I know, this will only work for RIPE 2.x and higher servers, RA is a derivative of RIPE1.x and will thus not work, however, RIPE is mirroring all routing registries, so you should be fine) David K. ---
Hello David K., Who's & Which version of 'whois' is being used in the example ? tia, JimL On Fri, 8 May 1998 davidk@ISI.EDU wrote:
Jon, Jon Lewis writes:
Things appear fixed, yet I still don't know how to see if we're in our providers' AS macros. Is there an easy way (other than emailing the AS maintainer) to get the macro from radb.ra.net if you don't know the macro's name?
whois -h whois.ripe.net -r -a -i as-list YourAS
(note: as far as I know, this will only work for RIPE 2.x and higher servers, RA is a derivative of RIPE1.x and will thus not work, however, RIPE is mirroring all routing registries, so you should be fine)
Jim, Network Operations Center writes:
Hello David K.,
Who's & Which version of 'whois' is being used in the example ?
You can use almost any version of the whois client program. The magic is at the server end (which can be installed locally too if desired). The trick is to quote the options: For example, you can do on most Linux systems: $ fwhois "-r -a -i as-list YourAS"@whois.ripe.net or you can even do: $ telnet whois.ripe.net whois Trying 193.0.0.198... Connected to bsdbase.ripe.net. Escape character is '^]'. -r -a -i as-list YourAS I use the following client program: http://brind.isi.edu/~davidk/6bone/ripe-whois-tools+6bone-extensions-latest.... David K. ---
On Wed, 6 May 1998, Jason L. Weisberger wrote:
Is it unreasonable of me to think it's awfully backwards of ANS.NET to require anyone getting a new CIDR block to physically call ANS's NOC and say "please listen to routes for this block from this AS"?
They obviously care even less about their network than we were previously led to belive.
Based on some of the other replies I've gotten, it's clear I should have elaborated I'm not an ANS customer. I could see them not taking BGP routes for any random IP block from customers...but I'm a customer of other backbones, and had to call ANS to say "please listen to X and Y announcing routes for blah". I told them on the phone...I'll just have to keep telling our customers (some of which are ISPs) that ANS is down. :) ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jon Lewis <jlewis@fdt.net> | Network Administrator | Florida Digital Turnpike | ______http://inorganic5.fdt.net/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key____
Are there other backbones I need to call to make sure they see our routes? In Australia I think it's standard practice for the backbones to require registration of routes. We (Connect) certainly do since we use the information for billing purposes, and to register the routes with other providers. Mark.
participants (8)
-
Al Reuben -
davidk＠ISI.EDU -
Jason L. Weisberger -
Jon Lewis -
Mark Prior -
Network Operations Center -
Randy Bush -
Rob Skrobola