It appears that without telling anyone Microsoft decided the Internet Explorer Admin Kit version 6.0 which generates a custom IE web browser for ISP's would no longer support Windows 95. I do not know about the rest of you however, I have many Windows 95 users still signing on to my service. I think it is time to let Microsoft know our displeasure about this clear abuse of their monopoly position. Once someone else confirms this behavior, I intend to raise a stink with the national news media, the federal government and the nine states that are still suing Microsoft. Bill Larson Network Administrator Compu-Net Enterprises
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The problem is that IE6 does not support Win95. You need a minimum of Win98 to install IE6... ********************************************** Tim Winders, MCSE, CNE, CCNA Associate Dean of Information Technology South Plains College Levelland, TX 79336 Phone: 806-894-9611 x 2369 FAX: 806-894-1549 Email: TWinders@SPC.cc.tx.us ********************************************** On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Bill Larson wrote:
It appears that without telling anyone Microsoft decided the Internet Explorer Admin Kit version 6.0 which generates a custom IE web browser for ISP's would no longer support Windows 95. I do not know about the rest of you however, I have many Windows 95 users still signing on to my service. I think it is time to let Microsoft know our displeasure about this clear abuse of their monopoly position. Once someone else confirms this behavior, I intend to raise a stink with the national news media, the federal government and the nine states that are still suing Microsoft.
Bill Larson Network Administrator Compu-Net Enterprises
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Today on ISP-Planet Hot business, marketing & tech tips for the ISP community http://www.isp-planet.com/
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However there is no reason other than trying to force people to upgrade to the newest Microsoft OS version to write this browser so that it would not support windows 95 as well. Many of the rural users I deal with have machines barely able to run Windows 95, and forget windows 98. If I tell my users they must upgrade their computers to use my service those users will simply find another internet service. Bill Larson Network Administrator Compu-Net Enterprises ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Winders" <twinders@SPC.cc.tx.us> To: "Bill Larson" <blarson@compu.net> Cc: <isp-tech@isp-tech.com>; <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 1:45 PM Subject: Re: win95 and IEAK6.0
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
The problem is that IE6 does not support Win95. You need a minimum of Win98 to install IE6...
********************************************** Tim Winders, MCSE, CNE, CCNA Associate Dean of Information Technology South Plains College Levelland, TX 79336
Phone: 806-894-9611 x 2369 FAX: 806-894-1549 Email: TWinders@SPC.cc.tx.us **********************************************
On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Bill Larson wrote:
It appears that without telling anyone Microsoft decided the Internet Explorer Admin Kit version 6.0 which generates a custom IE web browser for ISP's would no longer support Windows 95. I do not know about the rest of you however, I have many Windows 95 users still signing on to my service. I think it is time to let Microsoft know our displeasure about this clear abuse of their monopoly position. Once someone else confirms this behavior, I intend to raise a stink with the national news media, the federal government and the nine states that are still suing Microsoft.
Bill Larson Network Administrator Compu-Net Enterprises
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Today on ISP-Planet Hot business, marketing & tech tips for the ISP community http://www.isp-planet.com/
_____________ The ISP-TECH Discussion List _____________ To Join: mailto:join-isp-tech@isp-tech.com To Remove: mailto:remove-isp-tech@isp-tech.com Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-tech/archives/
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Just to be clear, is any company which stops support legacy products abusing their monopoly? Or do you just like using that buzzword in regards to microsoft? - -- Matt Levine @Home: matt@deliver3.com @Work: matt@eldosales.com ICQ : 17080004 PGP : http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6C0D04CF "The Trouble with doing anything right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was." - -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of Bill Larson Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 2:52 PM To: Tim Winders Cc: isp-tech@isp-tech.com; nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: win95 and IEAK6.0 However there is no reason other than trying to force people to upgrade to the newest Microsoft OS version to write this browser so that it would not support windows 95 as well. Many of the rural users I deal with have machines barely able to run Windows 95, and forget windows 98. If I tell my users they must upgrade their computers to use my service those users will simply find another internet service. Bill Larson Network Administrator Compu-Net Enterprises - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Winders" <twinders@SPC.cc.tx.us> To: "Bill Larson" <blarson@compu.net> Cc: <isp-tech@isp-tech.com>; <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 1:45 PM Subject: Re: win95 and IEAK6.0
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
The problem is that IE6 does not support Win95. You need a minimum of Win98 to install IE6...
********************************************** Tim Winders, MCSE, CNE, CCNA Associate Dean of Information Technology South Plains College Levelland, TX 79336
Phone: 806-894-9611 x 2369 FAX: 806-894-1549 Email: TWinders@SPC.cc.tx.us **********************************************
On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Bill Larson wrote:
It appears that without telling anyone Microsoft decided the Internet Explorer Admin Kit version 6.0 which generates a custom IE web browser for ISP's would no longer support Windows 95. I do not know about the rest of you however, I have many Windows 95 users still signing on to my service. I think it is time to let Microsoft know our displeasure about this clear abuse of their monopoly position. Once someone else confirms this behavior, I intend to raise a stink with the national news media, the federal government and the nine states that are still suing Microsoft.
Bill Larson Network Administrator Compu-Net Enterprises
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Today on ISP-Planet Hot business, marketing & tech tips for the ISP community http://www.isp-planet.com/
_____________ The ISP-TECH Discussion List _____________ To Join: mailto:join-isp-tech@isp-tech.com To Remove: mailto:remove-isp-tech@isp-tech.com Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-tech/archives/
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While it may be sooner than some would like, I've no qualms with Microsoft cutting off older versions of software. Just think how much smoother and stabler Win95 could have been if MS bit the bullet and dumped DOS/win 3.1 support? In any case, why do your customers HAVE to use the latest IEAK package to connect to your service? Is it not possible to keep older versions on hand for older systems? Joshua Coombs * jcoombs@gwi.net - All opinions, statements and outright lies - contained within are copyright 2001 by - Joshua Coombs and shall not be reprinted - or publicly displayed without ignoring this - useless boilerplate. On Wed, Nov 21, 2001 at 01:51:32PM -0600, Bill Larson wrote:
However there is no reason other than trying to force people to upgrade to the newest Microsoft OS version to write this browser so that it would not support windows 95 as well. Many of the rural users I deal with have machines barely able to run Windows 95, and forget windows 98. If I tell my users they must upgrade their computers to use my service those users will simply find another internet service.
Bill Larson Network Administrator Compu-Net Enterprises
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Winders" <twinders@SPC.cc.tx.us> To: "Bill Larson" <blarson@compu.net> Cc: <isp-tech@isp-tech.com>; <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 1:45 PM Subject: Re: win95 and IEAK6.0
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
The problem is that IE6 does not support Win95. You need a minimum of Win98 to install IE6...
********************************************** Tim Winders, MCSE, CNE, CCNA Associate Dean of Information Technology South Plains College Levelland, TX 79336
Phone: 806-894-9611 x 2369 FAX: 806-894-1549 Email: TWinders@SPC.cc.tx.us **********************************************
On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Bill Larson wrote:
It appears that without telling anyone Microsoft decided the Internet Explorer Admin Kit version 6.0 which generates a custom IE web browser for ISP's would no longer support Windows 95. I do not know about the rest of you however, I have many Windows 95 users still signing on to my service. I think it is time to let Microsoft know our displeasure about this clear abuse of their monopoly position. Once someone else confirms this behavior, I intend to raise a stink with the national news media, the federal government and the nine states that are still suing Microsoft.
Bill Larson Network Administrator Compu-Net Enterprises
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Today on ISP-Planet Hot business, marketing & tech tips for the ISP community http://www.isp-planet.com/
_____________ The ISP-TECH Discussion List _____________ To Join: mailto:join-isp-tech@isp-tech.com To Remove: mailto:remove-isp-tech@isp-tech.com Archives: http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-tech/archives/
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-----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Joshua Coombs Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 3:08 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: win95 and IEAK6.0
While it may be sooner than some would like, I've no qualms with Microsoft cutting off older versions of software. Just think how much smoother and stabler Win95 could have been if MS bit the bullet and dumped DOS/win 3.1 support?
In any case, why do your customers HAVE to use the latest IEAK package to connect to your service? Is it not possible to keep older versions on hand for older systems?
I believe in the Microsoft Liscense for the IEAK. That when a new version is released you MUST upgrade to it in a reasonable amount of time. I am not sure about the exact wording as it has been a while since I messed with the IEAK. -Patrick -- Patrick Muldoon, Network/Software Engineer INOC, LLC doon@inoc.net I am still waiting for the advent of the computer science groupie.
Joshua Coombs
* jcoombs@gwi.net - All opinions, statements and outright lies - contained within are copyright 2001 by - Joshua Coombs and shall not be reprinted - or publicly displayed without ignoring this - useless boilerplate.
On Wed, Nov 21, 2001 at 03:25:45PM -0500, Patrick Muldoon wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Joshua Coombs Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 3:08 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: win95 and IEAK6.0
While it may be sooner than some would like, I've no qualms with Microsoft cutting off older versions of software. Just think how much smoother and stabler Win95 could have been if MS bit the bullet and dumped DOS/win 3.1 support?
In any case, why do your customers HAVE to use the latest IEAK package to connect to your service? Is it not possible to keep older versions on hand for older systems?
I believe in the Microsoft Liscense for the IEAK. That when a new version is released you MUST upgrade to it in a reasonable amount of time. I am not sure about the exact wording as it has been a while since I messed with the IEAK.
Wow, MS left something to user intruptation in a EULA?! Heh, welp, to me a reasonable amount of time would be, oh, 6 years? : ) In all seriousness, I think that's one of the gray areas that push comes to shove, one could argue against and win legally. I'm not a lawyer though, so don't hold me to that. Joshua Coombs * jcoombs@gwi.net - All opinions, statements and outright lies - contained within are copyright 2001 by - Joshua Coombs and shall not be reprinted - or publicly displayed without ignoring this - useless boilerplate.
-Patrick
-- Patrick Muldoon, Network/Software Engineer INOC, LLC doon@inoc.net
I am still waiting for the advent of the computer science groupie.
Joshua Coombs
* jcoombs@gwi.net - All opinions, statements and outright lies - contained within are copyright 2001 by - Joshua Coombs and shall not be reprinted - or publicly displayed without ignoring this - useless boilerplate.
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of Bill Larson Sent: November 21, 2001 2:52 PM To: Tim Winders Cc: isp-tech@isp-tech.com; nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: win95 and IEAK6.0
However there is no reason other than trying to force people to upgrade to the newest Microsoft OS version to write this browser so that it would not support windows 95 as well. Many of the rural users I deal with have machines barely able to run Windows 95, and forget windows 98. If I tell my users they must upgrade their computers to use my service those users will simply find another internet service.
Are you sure that you would WANT to run IE 6 on these machines? The requirements for IE6 seem identical to the requirements for Win98, which you can find at http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q182/7/51.ASP (someone alread posted the requirements for IE6) I know I've tried IE_5_ on a machine that's barely below these minimum requirements on Win95, and... well, let me put it this way: the 14.4 modem in that box was no longer the bottleneck. I have trouble believing that IE6 (or even IE5) would acceptably on a <P100, and if you have a P133+ I would think you can run Win98 just fine if you turn off active desktop (and then again, I'm not even sure anyone enables Active Desktop even on a 1900+ Athlon XP) Vivien P.S. I don't know where you are, but in my general area (Ontario, Canada), you can buy refurb P166s capable of running Win98 for about $90CDN, or about $60USD (probably less than that, since the exchange rate sucks so much these days). Makes me wonder how much my nice 486 is worth these days... probably less than a box of donuts! -- Vivien M. vivienm@dyndns.org Assistant System Administrator Dynamic DNS Network Services http://www.dyndns.org/
At 02:51 PM 11/21/2001, Bill Larson wrote:
users they must upgrade their computers to use my service those users will simply find another internet service.
OK, I don't get this at all. Why would existing users need to run IE6 at all? For that matter, why would anyone *need* to run IE6? It's not a terribly complicated matter to create the dialup connection in Win95... geez, how long did most of us go without even the cute wizards? I do understand that you want to provide a "branded" copy of IE to your users - but I'd guess you've already provided that to your existing users, and frankly, the license notwithstanding, I don't see the software cops comin' down on you because you continue to distribute your old IE5 branded browser to Windows 95 users. Of course, I'm not a lawyer... If I were in that situation, I'd do just that - make up the new IE6 for users with machines/operating systems that can handle it, and keep the old IE5 for those who can't.
heh. It's been time for about 2-3 years now, easy. Where were you before now? -Paul At 02:42 PM 11/21/2001, you wrote:
It appears that without telling anyone Microsoft decided the Internet Explorer Admin Kit version 6.0 which generates a custom IE web browser for ISP's would no longer support Windows 95. I do not know about the rest of you however, I have many Windows 95 users still signing on to my service. I think it is time to let Microsoft know our displeasure about this clear abuse of their monopoly position. Once someone else confirms this behavior, I intend to raise a stink with the national news media, the federal government and the nine states that are still suing Microsoft.
Bill Larson Network Administrator Compu-Net Enterprises
At 02:42 PM 11/21/2001, Bill Larson wrote:
It appears that without telling anyone Microsoft decided the Internet Explorer Admin Kit version 6.0 which generates a custom IE web browser for ISP's would no longer support Windows 95. I do not know about the rest of you however, I have many Windows 95 users still signing on to my service. I think it is time to let Microsoft know our displeasure about this clear abuse of their monopoly position. Once someone else confirms this behavior, I intend to raise a stink with the national news media, the federal government and the nine states that are still suing Microsoft.
You're not suggesting that Microsoft (or anyone, for that matter) not be allowed to decide on their own when (or if) to stop supporting legacy products? http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/evaluation/sysreqs/default.asp shows quite clearly the operating systems that IE6 requires. Abuse of their monopoly position? I disagree - it appears they made a decision to no longer develop for Windows 95. What's wrong with that? They also don't develop for Windows 3.1. In a couple of years, they'll stop developing for Windows 98, and you'll need ME, NT, 2000 or XP (though it may be a little longer, since there's likely more "compatibility" between the later products and 98). That's life - time marches on, obsoleting older products.
Bill Larson Network Administrator Compu-Net Enterprises
participants (8)
-
Bill Larson -
Dave Stewart -
Joshua Coombs -
Matt Levine -
Patrick Muldoon -
Paul Timmins -
Tim Winders -
Vivien M.