Is Cisco equpiment de facto for you?
I know where I have worked we have had a mixture of Juniper and Cisco equipment. Personally buying a Juniper Router like a M or a T series is like buying a Ferrari. I like Cisco personally and they are cheaper than buying a Juniper. For example a M-series is always going to cost some bucks after you factor the FPC and the PICS that need to be loaded. Personally I like the JUNOS system better than the Cisco IOS, it is more tech friendly when troubleshooting issues. I have not worked on the new IOS-NX system, but if I understand it correctly it is modular. If Cisco can the really cool Monitor command and the structure the command tree like a Juniper. I would think Cisco did something totally right. M.A.R
Once upon a time, Michael Ruiz <mruiz@lstfinancial.com> said:
I like Cisco personally and they are cheaper than buying a Juniper. For example a M-series is always going to cost some bucks after you factor the FPC and the PICS that need to be loaded.
We didn't find that to be the case, after you factor in all the Cisco pieces that need to be loaded as well. Both make modular routers, so I don't see how saying that one requires modules is a valid argument. -- Chris Adams <cmadams@hiwaay.net> Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
at one shop were i considered using Juniper instead of a Cisco internet edge router, the cost of the Juniper was so close to the Cisco it was a non consideration. The only reason we went with Cisco that time was due to the fact most of the other gear was Cisco, and it seemed to make more sense to stay with cisco instead of introducing a new vendor/methods into the mix without good reason. The hardware alone was cheaper than the Cisco kit, but after we said we needed to hold a million BGP routes, the prices became very similar. Juniper wants to license you on the amount of routes you intend to receive, if i remember correctly. -g On Jan 13, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Chris Adams wrote:
Once upon a time, Michael Ruiz <mruiz@lstfinancial.com> said:
I like Cisco personally and they are cheaper than buying a Juniper. For example a M-series is always going to cost some bucks after you factor the FPC and the PICS that need to be loaded.
We didn't find that to be the case, after you factor in all the Cisco pieces that need to be loaded as well. Both make modular routers, so I don't see how saying that one requires modules is a valid argument.
-- Chris Adams <cmadams@hiwaay.net> Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
-- This message and any attachments may contain confidential and/or privileged information for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review or distribution by anyone other than the person for whom it was originally intended is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Opinions, conclusions or other information contained in this message may not be that of the organization.
On 1/13/2011 1:35 PM, Michael Ruiz wrote:
For example a M-series is always going to cost some bucks after you factor the FPC and the PICS that need to be loaded.
I find this usually has to do with the fact that there is no "backup to software processing" on a Juniper. Every feature it supports, it does so in hardware. If the hardware won't do it, then JUNOS won't do it. The exception has been the multiservices PIC, which is being obsoleted with the trio chipset. You are right, though. If you don't need the performance, you can settle for a cisco in many cases. Also, the MX Juniper line often has nicer performance than the M series if you do more ethernet than sonet. Jack
I find this usually has to do with the fact that there is no "backup to
software processing" on a Juniper. Every feature it supports, it does so in hardware. If the hardware won't do it, then JUNOS won't do it.
The exception has been the multiservices PIC, which is being obsoleted with the trio chipset.
You are right, though. If you don't need the performance, you can settle for a cisco in many cases. Also, the MX Juniper line often has nicer performance than the M series if you do more ethernet than sonet.
Yeah another thing I love about the JUNOS is the rollback command. Whew I can tell you a few times where that has saved my bacon a few times and the commit and check command. :-) -----Original Message----- From: Jack Bates [mailto:jbates@brightok.net] Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 1:41 PM To: Michael Ruiz Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Is Cisco equpiment de facto for you? On 1/13/2011 1:35 PM, Michael Ruiz wrote:
For example a M-series is always going to cost some bucks after you factor the FPC and the PICS that need to be loaded.
I find this usually has to do with the fact that there is no "backup to software processing" on a Juniper. Every feature it supports, it does so in hardware. If the hardware won't do it, then JUNOS won't do it. The exception has been the multiservices PIC, which is being obsoleted with the trio chipset. You are right, though. If you don't need the performance, you can settle for a cisco in many cases. Also, the MX Juniper line often has nicer performance than the M series if you do more ethernet than sonet. Jack
On Thu, 13 Jan 2011, Michael Ruiz wrote:
Yeah another thing I love about the JUNOS is the rollback command. Whew I can tell you a few times where that has saved my bacon a few times and the commit and check command. :-)
Definite +1 for rollback and commit check - and also show | compare jms
On 1/13/2011 1:48 PM, Michael Ruiz wrote:
Yeah another thing I love about the JUNOS is the rollback command. Whew I can tell you a few times where that has saved my bacon a few times and the commit and check command.:-)
Cisco IOS has a similar feature. reload in 5 make changes verify things are working reload cancel It's a little different on a redundant processor system, as you have to reload both processors. It's also a 2-20 minute outage while you reload, but it does beat 2 hour drives. Jack
The catch is being able to do it without reloading! "commit confirm" will help a lot as well. In case your commit annihilates your ssh session. ;) Scott On 1/13/11 2:51 PM, Jack Bates wrote:
On 1/13/2011 1:48 PM, Michael Ruiz wrote:
Yeah another thing I love about the JUNOS is the rollback command. Whew I can tell you a few times where that has saved my bacon a few times and the commit and check command.:-)
Cisco IOS has a similar feature.
reload in 5 make changes verify things are working reload cancel
It's a little different on a redundant processor system, as you have to reload both processors. It's also a 2-20 minute outage while you reload, but it does beat 2 hour drives.
Jack
Cisco IOS has a similar feature.
reload in 5 make changes verify things are working reload cancel
There seems to be a better way to do it in IOS that will not reload the router: http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/ios/12_3t/12_3t7/feature/guide/gtrollbk.html I haven't tried it since all my gear has OOB serial mgmt but it appears to let you rollback a config after a set time without a reboot. It still doesn't seem to be as nice as JUNOS rollback.
Subway subs started offering toasted as an option in response to the success of Quiznos Subs. So many vendors have been chasing the "me too" feature match behind Cisco for so many years it interesting to see Cisco doing the same behind Juniper. -b -- Bill Blackford Network Engineer Logged into reality and abusing my sudo privileges..... ig after a set time without a reboot. It still doesn't seem to be as nice as JUNOS rollback.
-- Bill Blackford Network Engineer Logged into reality and abusing my sudo privileges.....
On 1/13/2011 2:44 PM, Thomas Magill wrote:
Cisco IOS has a similar feature.
reload in 5 make changes verify things are working reload cancel
There seems to be a better way to do it in IOS that will not reload the router:
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/ios/12_3t/12_3t7/feature/guide/gtrollbk.html
I haven't tried it since all my gear has OOB serial mgmt but it appears to let you rollback a config after a set time without a reboot. It still doesn't seem to be as nice as JUNOS rollback.
The problem is, it doesn't seem to support an automated rollback function. You'd need OOB to get access in many cases to do the rollback. Jack
The problem is, it doesn't seem to support an automated rollback function. You'd need OOB to get access in many cases to do the rollback.
I thought that is what 'configure terminal revert timer x' did. It looks like you have to do a 'configure confirm' before the revert time expires or it reverts back to when you started. Maybe I'll actually try this out and find out for sure.
On Jan 13, 2011, at 11:51 AM, Jack Bates wrote:
On 1/13/2011 1:48 PM, Michael Ruiz wrote:
Yeah another thing I love about the JUNOS is the rollback command. Whew I can tell you a few times where that has saved my bacon a few times and the commit and check command.:-)
Cisco IOS has a similar feature.
reload in 5 make changes verify things are working reload cancel
It's a little different on a redundant processor system, as you have to reload both processors. It's also a 2-20 minute outage while you reload, but it does beat 2 hour drives.
Jack
Not at all the same... With JunOS, I can have the changes I made running for days, but, when some problem is later discovered I can still rollback to the previous (or several revisions back). I can easily compare the current config to several previous revisions, etc. Additionally, with JunOS I can make all my changes, verify them syntactically, compare the changes made to the previous configuration all without having the changes take effect during the process. Then, when I'm satisfied I have it right, I commit the configuration. If you've ever had to play the IOS ACL rotation game, you know how wonderful this feature is. Cisco's half-hearted attempt to play catch-up here is woefully inadequate. Owen
On 1/13/2011 2:58 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:
reload in 5 make changes verify things are working reload cancel
It's a little different on a redundant processor system, as you have to reload both processors. It's also a 2-20 minute outage while you reload, but it does beat 2 hour drives.
Not at all the same... With JunOS, I can have the changes I made running for days, but, when some problem is later discovered I can still rollback to the previous (or several revisions back). I can easily compare the current config to several previous revisions, etc.
EDIT: </sarcasm>
On Jan 13, 2011, at 11:51 AM, Jack Bates wrote:
On 1/13/2011 1:48 PM, Michael Ruiz wrote:
Yeah another thing I love about the JUNOS is the rollback command. Whew I can tell you a few times where that has saved my bacon a few times and the commit and check command.:-)
Cisco IOS has a similar feature.
reload in 5 make changes verify things are working reload cancel
It's a little different on a redundant processor system, as you have to reload both processors. It's also a 2-20 minute outage while you reload, but it does beat 2 hour drives.
Jack
Not at all the same... With JunOS, I can have the changes I made running for days, but, when some problem is later discovered I can still rollback to >the previous (or several revisions back). I can easily compare the current config to several previous revisions, etc.
Additionally, with JunOS I can make all my changes, verify them syntactically, compare the changes made to the previous configuration all without having >the changes take effect during the process. Then, when I'm satisfied I have it right, I commit the configuration. If you've ever had to play the IOS ACL >rotation game, you know how wonderful this feature is.
Cisco's half-hearted attempt to play catch-up here is woefully inadequate.
Owen
I agree. That is the really neat feature about the rollback command. Like I said before it has saved me more ways the one. :-) -----Original Message----- From: Owen DeLong [mailto:owen@delong.com] Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 2:59 PM To: Jack Bates Cc: Michael Ruiz; nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Is Cisco equpiment de facto for you? On Jan 13, 2011, at 11:51 AM, Jack Bates wrote:
On 1/13/2011 1:48 PM, Michael Ruiz wrote:
Yeah another thing I love about the JUNOS is the rollback command. Whew I can tell you a few times where that has saved my bacon a few times and the commit and check command.:-)
Cisco IOS has a similar feature.
reload in 5 make changes verify things are working reload cancel
It's a little different on a redundant processor system, as you have to reload both processors. It's also a 2-20 minute outage while you reload, but it does beat 2 hour drives.
Jack
Not at all the same... With JunOS, I can have the changes I made running for days, but, when some problem is later discovered I can still rollback to the previous (or several revisions back). I can easily compare the current config to several previous revisions, etc. Additionally, with JunOS I can make all my changes, verify them syntactically, compare the changes made to the previous configuration all without having the changes take effect during the process. Then, when I'm satisfied I have it right, I commit the configuration. If you've ever had to play the IOS ACL rotation game, you know how wonderful this feature is. Cisco's half-hearted attempt to play catch-up here is woefully inadequate. Owen
In a message written on Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 01:48:27PM -0600, Michael Ruiz wrote:
Yeah another thing I love about the JUNOS is the rollback command. Whew I can tell you a few times where that has saved my bacon a few times and the commit and check command. :-)
Cisco marketing seems to have dropped the ball on this one, but IOS has had a feature that allows you to save a number of configurations, do diff's, and generally behave similar to the JunOS method for quite a while. You'll want to check out the "archive" command. http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/networking/?p=532 The only thing I can tell that's really missing is "commit confirmed" in JunOS, and of course it operates differently so people may or may not like it. -- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/
Cisco marketing seems to have dropped the ball on this one, but IOS has had a feature that allows you to save a number of configurations, do diff's, and >generally behave similar to the JunOS method for quite a while. You'll want to check out the "archive" command.
The only thing I can tell that's really missing is "commit confirmed" in JunOS, and of course it operates differently so people may or may not like it.
-- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/ Yeah you are right it does have some JUNOS like feel.
-----Original Message----- From: Leo Bicknell [mailto:bicknell@ufp.org] Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 1:58 PM To: Michael Ruiz Cc: Jack Bates; nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Is Cisco equpiment de facto for you? In a message written on Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 01:48:27PM -0600, Michael Ruiz wrote:
Yeah another thing I love about the JUNOS is the rollback command. Whew I can tell you a few times where that has saved my bacon a few times and the commit and check command. :-)
Cisco marketing seems to have dropped the ball on this one, but IOS has had a feature that allows you to save a number of configurations, do diff's, and generally behave similar to the JunOS method for quite a while. You'll want to check out the "archive" command. http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/networking/?p=532 The only thing I can tell that's really missing is "commit confirmed" in JunOS, and of course it operates differently so people may or may not like it. -- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/
Cheers.. to M.A.R.'s related view On Jan 13, 2011 12:37 PM, "Michael Ruiz" <mruiz@lstfinancial.com> wrote: I know where I have worked we have had a mixture of Juniper and Cisco equipment. Personally buying a Juniper Router like a M or a T series is like buying a Ferrari. I like Cisco personally and they are cheaper than buying a Juniper. For example a M-series is always going to cost some bucks after you factor the FPC and the PICS that need to be loaded. Personally I like the JUNOS system better than the Cisco IOS, it is more tech friendly when troubleshooting issues. I have not worked on the new IOS-NX system, but if I understand it correctly it is modular. If Cisco can the really cool Monitor command and the structure the command tree like a Juniper. I would think Cisco did something totally right. M.A.R
participants (11)
-
b nickell -
Bill Blackford -
Chris Adams -
Greg Whynott -
Jack Bates -
Justin M. Streiner -
Leo Bicknell -
Michael Ruiz -
Owen DeLong -
Scott Morris -
Thomas Magill