RE: Administration Asks Appeals Court To Compel ISP Searches
Looks like they want us to turn over customer info without the subpoena, but simply with a phone call (or whatever) from an investigator. I would hope that would be just for specific accounts, and not the entire customer list. In any event, now we're going to have to at least confirm the investigator's identity, whereas currently the sub carries sufficient authority. I don't think you meant to say 'without any specific criminal charges having been filed', as subpoena'd evidence leads to charges. Chris Ranch Affinity Internet, Inc.
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Jason Frisvold Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 11:53 AM To: Fergie (Paul Ferguson) Cc: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: Administration Asks Appeals Court To Compel ISP Searches
On 5/31/05, Fergie (Paul Ferguson) <fergdawg@netzero.net> wrote:
Worth knowing how this all falls out, methinks.
Am I understanding this correctly? Are they trying to get ISP's to release all customer information up front without any sort of legal request? I don't have a problem releasing information asked for in a subpeona, but to turn over an entire customer list without any specific criminal charges having been files is a little much.
Please tell me I'm misreading this...
- ferg
-- Jason 'XenoPhage' Frisvold XenoPhage0@gmail.com
On 5/31/05, Chris Ranch <CRanch@affinity.com> wrote:
Looks like they want us to turn over customer info without the subpoena, but simply with a phone call (or whatever) from an investigator. I would hope that would be just for specific accounts, and not the entire customer list. In any event, now we're going to have to at least confirm the investigator's identity, whereas currently the sub carries sufficient authority.
Ugh.. Ok, so it's a "Hi, I'm an FBI Agent. Gimme info on Joe Blow and Mary Jane" and I'm supposed to jump and give out that info... No questions asked... I'm not so opposed to the "don't tell anyone" part. When we receive a subpeona for a criminal case (as opposed to a civil case), the subpeona usually states that the subpeona and information being requested can't be discussed by anyone. Whereas a civil case allows us to tell the customer if we want to. My problem would be the handing over of information to what is essentially an unknown party.. That wonderful law would allow a terrorist or other crook to impersonate an investigator and gather information..
I don't think you meant to say 'without any specific criminal charges having been filed', as subpoena'd evidence leads to charges.
Well, the few instances I've had to deal with this, the subpeona was for a specific case, so I would guess from that information that charges had been filed... I'm not a lawyer and I don't even pretend to understand fully how the whole system works, so I'm probably wrong.. :)
Chris Ranch Affinity Internet, Inc.
-- Jason 'XenoPhage' Frisvold XenoPhage0@gmail.com
At 01:39 PM 5/31/2005, Jason Frisvold wrote:
On 5/31/05, Chris Ranch <CRanch@affinity.com> wrote:
Looks like they want us to turn over customer info without the subpoena, but simply with a phone call (or whatever) from an investigator. I would hope that would be just for specific accounts, and not the entire customer list. In any event, now we're going to have to at least confirm the investigator's identity, whereas currently the sub carries sufficient authority.
Ugh.. Ok, so it's a "Hi, I'm an FBI Agent. Gimme info on Joe Blow and Mary Jane" and I'm supposed to jump and give out that info... No questions asked...
An NSL is hand delivered to an ISP, not faxed or mailed. The person delivering that NSL must present identification, and hands the NSL over to the ISP. The NSL must be hand-delivered back (again, not faxed or mailed). The person picking it up must present to me proper identification in order to receive it. I have never received an NSL that was faxed or otherwise delivered to me without proper authorization and identification, either at Road Runner or Adelphia. -MH W. Mark Herrick, Jr. Director - Data and Network Security - Adelphia Communications 5619 DTC Parkway, Greenwood Village, CO 80111 (O) 303-268-6440 (C) 720-252-5929 (F) 303-268-6687 AIM: AdelphiaSecWMH
At 01:53 PM 5/31/2005, W. Mark Herrick, Jr. wrote:
At 01:39 PM 5/31/2005, Jason Frisvold wrote:
Ugh.. Ok, so it's a "Hi, I'm an FBI Agent. Gimme info on Joe Blow and Mary Jane" and I'm supposed to jump and give out that info... No questions asked...
An NSL is hand delivered to an ISP, not faxed or mailed. The person delivering that NSL must present identification, and hands the NSL over to the ISP. The NSL must be hand-delivered back (again, not faxed or mailed). The person picking it up must present to me proper identification in order to receive it.
I have never received an NSL that was faxed or otherwise delivered to me without proper authorization and identification, either at Road Runner or Adelphia.
Re-reading this.... This is not meant to say that I have or have not received an NSL. My apologies if there was any confusion created. -MH W. Mark Herrick, Jr. Director - Data and Network Security - Adelphia Communications 5619 DTC Parkway, Greenwood Village, CO 80111 (O) 303-268-6440 (C) 720-252-5929 (F) 303-268-6687 AIM: AdelphiaSecWMH
participants (3)
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Chris Ranch -
Jason Frisvold -
W. Mark Herrick, Jr.