Howdy, We have a requirement for an aged care facility to provide voice and data, we have the voice worked out, but data, WiFi is out of the question, so are looking for IP-Dslams, preferably a system that is all-in-one, or self contained, as in contains its own BBRAS/LNS/PPP server/Radius, such as has a property managment API, or even just a webpage manager where admin can add in new residents when they arive, or delete when they depart I know these used to be available many years ago, but that vendor has like many vanished, only requirement is for ADSL2+, prefer units with either 48 ports or multiples of (192 etc) and have filtered voice out ports (telco50/rj21 etc) If anyone knows of such units, would appreciate some details on them, brand/model suppliers if known, etc, we can try get out google fu back if we have some steering:) Thank Y'all (resent - original never made it to the list for some gremlin reason)
I haven’t used any of theses… Check out Adtran Total Access 5000 Platform…. Used by a lot of EoC / EoDS1 carriers Google: Ethernet Extender DSLAM https://enableit.com/rackmount-extender/ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> On Behalf Of Nick Edwards Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 7:36 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: IP Dslams Howdy, We have a requirement for an aged care facility to provide voice and data, we have the voice worked out, but data, WiFi is out of the question, so are looking for IP-Dslams, preferably a system that is all-in-one, or self contained, as in contains its own BBRAS/LNS/PPP server/Radius, such as has a property managment API, or even just a webpage manager where admin can add in new residents when they arive, or delete when they depart I know these used to be available many years ago, but that vendor has like many vanished, only requirement is for ADSL2+, prefer units with either 48 ports or multiples of (192 etc) and have filtered voice out ports (telco50/rj21 etc) If anyone knows of such units, would appreciate some details on them, brand/model suppliers if known, etc, we can try get out google fu back if we have some steering:) Thank Y'all (resent - original never made it to the list for some gremlin reason) ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error please notify the sender immediately by replying to this e-mail. You must destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you.
+1 for Adtran TA5000 .. we use them, my former employer uses them with great success. There’s also the Calix series of gear that is quite good too … From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Erik Sundberg <ESundberg@nitelusa.com> Date: Monday, December 31, 2018 at 2:31 PM To: Nick Edwards <nick.z.edwards@gmail.com> Cc: "nanog@nanog.org" <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: RE: IP Dslams I haven’t used any of theses… Check out Adtran Total Access 5000 Platform…. Used by a lot of EoC / EoDS1 carriers Google: Ethernet Extender DSLAM https://enableit.com/rackmount-extender/ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> On Behalf Of Nick Edwards Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 7:36 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: IP Dslams Howdy, We have a requirement for an aged care facility to provide voice and data, we have the voice worked out, but data, WiFi is out of the question, so are looking for IP-Dslams, preferably a system that is all-in-one, or self contained, as in contains its own BBRAS/LNS/PPP server/Radius, such as has a property managment API, or even just a webpage manager where admin can add in new residents when they arive, or delete when they depart I know these used to be available many years ago, but that vendor has like many vanished, only requirement is for ADSL2+, prefer units with either 48 ports or multiples of (192 etc) and have filtered voice out ports (telco50/rj21 etc) If anyone knows of such units, would appreciate some details on them, brand/model suppliers if known, etc, we can try get out google fu back if we have some steering:) Thank Y'all (resent - original never made it to the list for some gremlin reason) ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error please notify the sender immediately by replying to this e-mail. You must destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you.
Most of my experience is with Calix C7 and E7 DSL, fan of both. Recently learning the Adtran TA5000, not impressed. Hardware may be solid, but management is ugly and painful. Sent from my U.S. Cellular® Smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Erik Sundberg <ESundberg@nitelusa.com> Date: 12/31/18 1:32 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Nick Edwards <nick.z.edwards@gmail.com> Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: IP Dslams I haven’t used any of theses… Check out Adtran Total Access 5000 Platform…. Used by a lot of EoC / EoDS1 carriers Google: Ethernet Extender DSLAM https://enableit.com/rackmount-extender/ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> On Behalf Of Nick Edwards Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 7:36 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: IP Dslams Howdy, We have a requirement for an aged care facility to provide voice and data, we have the voice worked out, but data, WiFi is out of the question, so are looking for IP-Dslams, preferably a system that is all-in-one, or self contained, as in contains its own BBRAS/LNS/PPP server/Radius, such as has a property managment API, or even just a webpage manager where admin can add in new residents when they arive, or delete when they depart I know these used to be available many years ago, but that vendor has like many vanished, only requirement is for ADSL2+, prefer units with either 48 ports or multiples of (192 etc) and have filtered voice out ports (telco50/rj21 etc) If anyone knows of such units, would appreciate some details on them, brand/model suppliers if known, etc, we can try get out google fu back if we have some steering:) Thank Y'all (resent - original never made it to the list for some gremlin reason) ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error please notify the sender immediately by replying to this e-mail. You must destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you. Jason Baugher, Network Operations Manager 405 Emminga Road | PO Box 217 | Golden, IL 62339-0217 P:(217) 696-4411 | F:(217) 696-4811 | www.adams.net<http://www.adams.net/> [Adams-Logo]<http://adams.net/> ________________________________ The information contained in this email message is PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL, and is intended for the use of the addressee and no one else. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, distribute, reproduce or use this email message (or the attachments) and notify the sender of the mistaken transmission. Thank you.
I'd consider breaking down the two functions. Set up your customer connections using ADSL Ethernet, etc and put each unit in the building on its own CVLAN. This should never change even when the subscribers in the unit change. This way you can configure it once and never touch it again. I'd use Calix G.fast but I have no idea what your budget/wiring looks like and I'm not sure where their e3-48 and E5-48 are in general availability. Then hand the SVLAN with all the CVLANs off to the BNG and authenticate the circuits using IPoE. Waystream has an ASR6000 switch with BNG functionalities (I've never used it, just came across it when looking for other options to replace my MX BNG. On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 1:15 PM Nick Edwards <nick.z.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
Howdy, We have a requirement for an aged care facility to provide voice and data, we have the voice worked out, but data, WiFi is out of the question, so are looking for IP-Dslams, preferably a system that is all-in-one, or self contained, as in contains its own BBRAS/LNS/PPP server/Radius, such as has a property managment API, or even just a webpage manager where admin can add in new residents when they arive, or delete when they depart I know these used to be available many years ago, but that vendor has like many vanished, only requirement is for ADSL2+, prefer units with either 48 ports or multiples of (192 etc) and have filtered voice out ports (telco50/rj21 etc)
If anyone knows of such units, would appreciate some details on them, brand/model suppliers if known, etc, we can try get out google fu back if we have some steering:)
Thank Y'all
(resent - original never made it to the list for some gremlin reason)
Carl, What did you select to replace your MX BNG? To Nick, we use Adtran Total Access 5000's today. They work fine, but if I was doing a new install I would do Calix with their newer lines that have SDN BNG functions. Calix just has better CPE to go along with it, but they are just G.Fast and ethernet only CPE's. Why only ADSL2+? What are you doing for voice? Do you have access to Coax cable? If so I would do a small 32x10 CMTS with cable modem. Much cheaper and future proof. On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 3:47 PM Carl Peterson <carl-lists@portnetworks.com> wrote:
I'd consider breaking down the two functions. Set up your customer connections using ADSL Ethernet, etc and put each unit in the building on its own CVLAN. This should never change even when the subscribers in the unit change. This way you can configure it once and never touch it again. I'd use Calix G.fast but I have no idea what your budget/wiring looks like and I'm not sure where their e3-48 and E5-48 are in general availability.
Then hand the SVLAN with all the CVLANs off to the BNG and authenticate the circuits using IPoE. Waystream has an ASR6000 switch with BNG functionalities (I've never used it, just came across it when looking for other options to replace my MX BNG.
On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 1:15 PM Nick Edwards <nick.z.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
Howdy, We have a requirement for an aged care facility to provide voice and data, we have the voice worked out, but data, WiFi is out of the question, so are looking for IP-Dslams, preferably a system that is all-in-one, or self contained, as in contains its own BBRAS/LNS/PPP server/Radius, such as has a property managment API, or even just a webpage manager where admin can add in new residents when they arive, or delete when they depart I know these used to be available many years ago, but that vendor has like many vanished, only requirement is for ADSL2+, prefer units with either 48 ports or multiples of (192 etc) and have filtered voice out ports (telco50/rj21 etc)
If anyone knows of such units, would appreciate some details on them, brand/model suppliers if known, etc, we can try get out google fu back if we have some steering:)
Thank Y'all
(resent - original never made it to the list for some gremlin reason)
Firstly, thanks everyone for replies. @Carl: ADSL2 dslams would no doubt be cheaper than VDSL for retirement village, and as a retirement village, residents must be 65+, therefor, they wont have high bandwidth needs, based on their other much older properties, their residents use between 2 and 15GB a month, with an average of 5GB, so VDSL -if not the same cost as ADSL2 dslams, would be a waste, and from my experience ADSL2 is more stable over distances, where the furthest villas are 800 meters away from comms room. As for phones, we are installing a PBXact1000, and for the villas, we will be using a bunch of Vega 3050 50 port Analogue gateways talking to it. These villas are stand alone duplexes, so running ethernet is not feasible They have a PMS which takes care of billing, although if they do what do at other places they run, residents are usually given a 30 dollar a month call credit which is likely included in their monthly "complex maintenance" fees. On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 8:12 AM Colton Conor <colton.conor@gmail.com> wrote:
Carl,
What did you select to replace your MX BNG?
To Nick, we use Adtran Total Access 5000's today. They work fine, but if I was doing a new install I would do Calix with their newer lines that have SDN BNG functions. Calix just has better CPE to go along with it, but they are just G.Fast and ethernet only CPE's.
Why only ADSL2+?
What are you doing for voice?
Do you have access to Coax cable? If so I would do a small 32x10 CMTS with cable modem. Much cheaper and future proof.
On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 3:47 PM Carl Peterson <carl-lists@portnetworks.com> wrote:
I'd consider breaking down the two functions. Set up your customer connections using ADSL Ethernet, etc and put each unit in the building on its own CVLAN. This should never change even when the subscribers in the unit change. This way you can configure it once and never touch it again. I'd use Calix G.fast but I have no idea what your budget/wiring looks like and I'm not sure where their e3-48 and E5-48 are in general availability.
Then hand the SVLAN with all the CVLANs off to the BNG and authenticate the circuits using IPoE. Waystream has an ASR6000 switch with BNG functionalities (I've never used it, just came across it when looking for other options to replace my MX BNG.
On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 1:15 PM Nick Edwards <nick.z.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
Howdy, We have a requirement for an aged care facility to provide voice and data, we have the voice worked out, but data, WiFi is out of the question, so are looking for IP-Dslams, preferably a system that is all-in-one, or self contained, as in contains its own BBRAS/LNS/PPP server/Radius, such as has a property managment API, or even just a webpage manager where admin can add in new residents when they arive, or delete when they depart I know these used to be available many years ago, but that vendor has like many vanished, only requirement is for ADSL2+, prefer units with either 48 ports or multiples of (192 etc) and have filtered voice out ports (telco50/rj21 etc)
If anyone knows of such units, would appreciate some details on them, brand/model suppliers if known, etc, we can try get out google fu back if we have some steering:)
Thank Y'all
(resent - original never made it to the list for some gremlin reason)
On 1/1/19 7:19 AM, Nick Edwards wrote:
@Carl: ADSL2 dslams would no doubt be cheaper than VDSL for retirement village, and as a retirement village, residents must be 65+, therefor, they wont have high bandwidth needs, based on their other much older properties, their residents use between 2 and 15GB a month, with an average of 5GB, so VDSL -if not the same cost as ADSL2 dslams, would be a waste, and from my experience ADSL2 is more stable over distances, where the furthest villas are 800 meters away from comms room.
If you're wanting to buy used gear, ADSL2+ DSLAMs are indeed probably cheaper, but you might have trouble finding native IP/Ethernet ones. A lot of the older stuff predating the VDSL era was very ATM-centric. I'm not sure anyone's still really making ADSL2+-only DSLAMs, so I'm not sure a 1:1 cost comparison is even possible on new gear. Note that most VDSL/VSDL2 DSLAMs do support ADSL2/ADSL2+ fallback, so you're not stuck with VDSL if you do have a problematic link, and you've got a bit more future-proofing. You can also get G.FAST DSLAMs with VDSL and ADSL2 fallback if you wanted to really have some future-proofing. 800m is probably pushing it for G.FAST, but VDSL2 should run on that just fine even on crummy old voice-grade copper. Depending on how it's bundled, you might not be able to use every pair in a cable for VDSL2, but if you're putting POTS on a separate pair, that means half your pairs right there are not running DSL at all. Again, with most VDSL DSLAMs, you've got the option of ADSL2 fallback if you do need it on the long-distance links. ADSL2 does have the advantage that you can (probably) run POTS+DSL on the same pair if you need to. I'm not sure that's possible with VDSL, but I'd love someone to prove me wrong. -- Brandon Martin
drats that last @ should have been to Colton, my apologies... I have in past used dlink and planet dslams as they were back then dirt cheap, I guess I might have to look at a small mikrotik device that can do all my requirements, just trying to use the KISS approach, as I'm the contractor installing it and wont be the one running it on a day to day as-needed basis, thats their admissions staff who will add/delete them On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 10:19 PM Nick Edwards <nick.z.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
Firstly, thanks everyone for replies.
@Carl: ADSL2 dslams would no doubt be cheaper than VDSL for retirement village, and as a retirement village, residents must be 65+, therefor, they wont have high bandwidth needs, based on their other much older properties, their residents use between 2 and 15GB a month, with an average of 5GB, so VDSL -if not the same cost as ADSL2 dslams, would be a waste, and from my experience ADSL2 is more stable over distances, where the furthest villas are 800 meters away from comms room.
As for phones, we are installing a PBXact1000, and for the villas, we will be using a bunch of Vega 3050 50 port Analogue gateways talking to it. These villas are stand alone duplexes, so running ethernet is not feasible They have a PMS which takes care of billing, although if they do what do at other places they run, residents are usually given a 30 dollar a month call credit which is likely included in their monthly "complex maintenance" fees.
On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 8:12 AM Colton Conor <colton.conor@gmail.com> wrote:
Carl,
What did you select to replace your MX BNG?
To Nick, we use Adtran Total Access 5000's today. They work fine, but if I was doing a new install I would do Calix with their newer lines that have SDN BNG functions. Calix just has better CPE to go along with it, but they are just G.Fast and ethernet only CPE's.
Why only ADSL2+?
What are you doing for voice?
Do you have access to Coax cable? If so I would do a small 32x10 CMTS with cable modem. Much cheaper and future proof.
On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 3:47 PM Carl Peterson < carl-lists@portnetworks.com> wrote:
I'd consider breaking down the two functions. Set up your customer connections using ADSL Ethernet, etc and put each unit in the building on its own CVLAN. This should never change even when the subscribers in the unit change. This way you can configure it once and never touch it again. I'd use Calix G.fast but I have no idea what your budget/wiring looks like and I'm not sure where their e3-48 and E5-48 are in general availability.
Then hand the SVLAN with all the CVLANs off to the BNG and authenticate the circuits using IPoE. Waystream has an ASR6000 switch with BNG functionalities (I've never used it, just came across it when looking for other options to replace my MX BNG.
On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 1:15 PM Nick Edwards <nick.z.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
Howdy, We have a requirement for an aged care facility to provide voice and data, we have the voice worked out, but data, WiFi is out of the question, so are looking for IP-Dslams, preferably a system that is all-in-one, or self contained, as in contains its own BBRAS/LNS/PPP server/Radius, such as has a property managment API, or even just a webpage manager where admin can add in new residents when they arive, or delete when they depart I know these used to be available many years ago, but that vendor has like many vanished, only requirement is for ADSL2+, prefer units with either 48 ports or multiples of (192 etc) and have filtered voice out ports (telco50/rj21 etc)
If anyone knows of such units, would appreciate some details on them, brand/model suppliers if known, etc, we can try get out google fu back if we have some steering:)
Thank Y'all
(resent - original never made it to the list for some gremlin reason)
Indstead of using a Vega 3050 for voice I would just get a DSLAM with a Combo card, and be done with it. VDSL2+ ports plus SIP FXS all on the same card. With that you get metalic testing which would be good for your situation. How many units are you talking about? Do you have access to Coaxial cable? On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 6:31 AM Nick Edwards <nick.z.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
drats that last @ should have been to Colton, my apologies...
I have in past used dlink and planet dslams as they were back then dirt cheap, I guess I might have to look at a small mikrotik device that can do all my requirements, just trying to use the KISS approach, as I'm the contractor installing it and wont be the one running it on a day to day as-needed basis, thats their admissions staff who will add/delete them
On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 10:19 PM Nick Edwards <nick.z.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
Firstly, thanks everyone for replies.
@Carl: ADSL2 dslams would no doubt be cheaper than VDSL for retirement village, and as a retirement village, residents must be 65+, therefor, they wont have high bandwidth needs, based on their other much older properties, their residents use between 2 and 15GB a month, with an average of 5GB, so VDSL -if not the same cost as ADSL2 dslams, would be a waste, and from my experience ADSL2 is more stable over distances, where the furthest villas are 800 meters away from comms room.
As for phones, we are installing a PBXact1000, and for the villas, we will be using a bunch of Vega 3050 50 port Analogue gateways talking to it. These villas are stand alone duplexes, so running ethernet is not feasible They have a PMS which takes care of billing, although if they do what do at other places they run, residents are usually given a 30 dollar a month call credit which is likely included in their monthly "complex maintenance" fees.
On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 8:12 AM Colton Conor <colton.conor@gmail.com> wrote:
Carl,
What did you select to replace your MX BNG?
To Nick, we use Adtran Total Access 5000's today. They work fine, but if I was doing a new install I would do Calix with their newer lines that have SDN BNG functions. Calix just has better CPE to go along with it, but they are just G.Fast and ethernet only CPE's.
Why only ADSL2+?
What are you doing for voice?
Do you have access to Coax cable? If so I would do a small 32x10 CMTS with cable modem. Much cheaper and future proof.
On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 3:47 PM Carl Peterson < carl-lists@portnetworks.com> wrote:
I'd consider breaking down the two functions. Set up your customer connections using ADSL Ethernet, etc and put each unit in the building on its own CVLAN. This should never change even when the subscribers in the unit change. This way you can configure it once and never touch it again. I'd use Calix G.fast but I have no idea what your budget/wiring looks like and I'm not sure where their e3-48 and E5-48 are in general availability.
Then hand the SVLAN with all the CVLANs off to the BNG and authenticate the circuits using IPoE. Waystream has an ASR6000 switch with BNG functionalities (I've never used it, just came across it when looking for other options to replace my MX BNG.
On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 1:15 PM Nick Edwards <nick.z.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
Howdy, We have a requirement for an aged care facility to provide voice and data, we have the voice worked out, but data, WiFi is out of the question, so are looking for IP-Dslams, preferably a system that is all-in-one, or self contained, as in contains its own BBRAS/LNS/PPP server/Radius, such as has a property managment API, or even just a webpage manager where admin can add in new residents when they arive, or delete when they depart I know these used to be available many years ago, but that vendor has like many vanished, only requirement is for ADSL2+, prefer units with either 48 ports or multiples of (192 etc) and have filtered voice out ports (telco50/rj21 etc)
If anyone knows of such units, would appreciate some details on them, brand/model suppliers if known, etc, we can try get out google fu back if we have some steering:)
Thank Y'all
(resent - original never made it to the list for some gremlin reason)
Thanks, do you have any brand DSLAM with combo card in mind? There are 260 villas, and no coax. On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 2:01 PM Colton Conor <colton.conor@gmail.com> wrote:
Indstead of using a Vega 3050 for voice I would just get a DSLAM with a Combo card, and be done with it. VDSL2+ ports plus SIP FXS all on the same card. With that you get metalic testing which would be good for your situation.
How many units are you talking about? Do you have access to Coaxial cable?
On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 6:31 AM Nick Edwards <nick.z.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
drats that last @ should have been to Colton, my apologies...
I have in past used dlink and planet dslams as they were back then dirt cheap, I guess I might have to look at a small mikrotik device that can do all my requirements, just trying to use the KISS approach, as I'm the contractor installing it and wont be the one running it on a day to day as-needed basis, thats their admissions staff who will add/delete them
On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 10:19 PM Nick Edwards <nick.z.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
Firstly, thanks everyone for replies.
@Carl: ADSL2 dslams would no doubt be cheaper than VDSL for retirement village, and as a retirement village, residents must be 65+, therefor, they wont have high bandwidth needs, based on their other much older properties, their residents use between 2 and 15GB a month, with an average of 5GB, so VDSL -if not the same cost as ADSL2 dslams, would be a waste, and from my experience ADSL2 is more stable over distances, where the furthest villas are 800 meters away from comms room.
As for phones, we are installing a PBXact1000, and for the villas, we will be using a bunch of Vega 3050 50 port Analogue gateways talking to it. These villas are stand alone duplexes, so running ethernet is not feasible They have a PMS which takes care of billing, although if they do what do at other places they run, residents are usually given a 30 dollar a month call credit which is likely included in their monthly "complex maintenance" fees.
On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 8:12 AM Colton Conor <colton.conor@gmail.com> wrote:
Carl,
What did you select to replace your MX BNG?
To Nick, we use Adtran Total Access 5000's today. They work fine, but if I was doing a new install I would do Calix with their newer lines that have SDN BNG functions. Calix just has better CPE to go along with it, but they are just G.Fast and ethernet only CPE's.
Why only ADSL2+?
What are you doing for voice?
Do you have access to Coax cable? If so I would do a small 32x10 CMTS with cable modem. Much cheaper and future proof.
On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 3:47 PM Carl Peterson < carl-lists@portnetworks.com> wrote:
I'd consider breaking down the two functions. Set up your customer connections using ADSL Ethernet, etc and put each unit in the building on its own CVLAN. This should never change even when the subscribers in the unit change. This way you can configure it once and never touch it again. I'd use Calix G.fast but I have no idea what your budget/wiring looks like and I'm not sure where their e3-48 and E5-48 are in general availability.
Then hand the SVLAN with all the CVLANs off to the BNG and authenticate the circuits using IPoE. Waystream has an ASR6000 switch with BNG functionalities (I've never used it, just came across it when looking for other options to replace my MX BNG.
On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 1:15 PM Nick Edwards <nick.z.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
Howdy, We have a requirement for an aged care facility to provide voice and data, we have the voice worked out, but data, WiFi is out of the question, so are looking for IP-Dslams, preferably a system that is all-in-one, or self contained, as in contains its own BBRAS/LNS/PPP server/Radius, such as has a property managment API, or even just a webpage manager where admin can add in new residents when they arive, or delete when they depart I know these used to be available many years ago, but that vendor has like many vanished, only requirement is for ADSL2+, prefer units with either 48 ports or multiples of (192 etc) and have filtered voice out ports (telco50/rj21 etc)
If anyone knows of such units, would appreciate some details on them, brand/model suppliers if known, etc, we can try get out google fu back if we have some steering:)
Thank Y'all
(resent - original never made it to the list for some gremlin reason)
On 1/2/19 6:47 AM, Nick Edwards wrote:
There are 260 villas, and no coax.
Is there a logical way to distribute the termination? You might be able to get better performance (not that you perhaps care, in this case) at minimal additional cost if you can do building-local termination of each customer circuit and then backhaul on e.g. bonded VDSL2 or G.FAST over shorter distances (perhaps hopping building to building). I'm assuming there's no data grade copper or fiber if there's no coax. Obviously if you've got those, distributed termination makes even more sense. If you do want a centralized solution, an Adtran TA5006 (the small chassis) with 6x 48 port VDSL2 combo modules (with or without vectoring, depending on your needs) would do the job (though it fills the chassis and doesn't allow for expansion, so the full-size TA5000 may be desirable). I've played (and am playing with) the same system but with GPON termination and have been happy with it so far. -- Brandon Martin
They don't have a large budget and although I'm yet to get prices on adtran's (understandable, holidays 'n all) I doubt it will fit within their budget, it's looking more like getting a few planet dslams and configuring a linux box as the bng, been 10 years since I've had to do that kind of setup, memories hazy, but I know it worked, and well, so thanks to all for suggestions but the adtrans and nokias are not for those on shoe string budgets, which wouldnt even allow me to include an asr1k for the bng, and although it would allow for, I'd rather not grab an ebay 7200/7300 :) On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 10:52 PM Brandon Martin <lists.nanog@monmotha.net> wrote:
On 1/2/19 6:47 AM, Nick Edwards wrote:
There are 260 villas, and no coax.
Is there a logical way to distribute the termination? You might be able to get better performance (not that you perhaps care, in this case) at minimal additional cost if you can do building-local termination of each customer circuit and then backhaul on e.g. bonded VDSL2 or G.FAST over shorter distances (perhaps hopping building to building).
I'm assuming there's no data grade copper or fiber if there's no coax. Obviously if you've got those, distributed termination makes even more sense.
If you do want a centralized solution, an Adtran TA5006 (the small chassis) with 6x 48 port VDSL2 combo modules (with or without vectoring, depending on your needs) would do the job (though it fills the chassis and doesn't allow for expansion, so the full-size TA5000 may be desirable). I've played (and am playing with) the same system but with GPON termination and have been happy with it so far. -- Brandon Martin
Might want to look for old Zhone ip bitstorm dslams. There should be a bunch on the used market. They do all of the ATM conversions internally so you just need to feed them with ethernet. -----Original Message----- From: "Nick Edwards" <nick.z.edwards@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, January 4, 2019 9:36am To: "Brandon Martin" <lists.nanog@monmotha.net> Cc: "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: IP Dslams They don't have a large budget and although I'm yet to get prices on adtran's (understandable, holidays 'n all) I doubt it will fit within their budget, it's looking more like getting a few planet dslams and configuring a linux box as the bng, been 10 years since I've had to do that kind of setup, memories hazy, but I know it worked, and well, so thanks to all for suggestions but the adtrans and nokias are not for those on shoe string budgets, which wouldnt even allow me to include an asr1k for the bng, and although it would allow for, I'd rather not grab an ebay 7200/7300 :) On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 10:52 PM Brandon Martin <[ lists.nanog@monmotha.net ]( mailto:lists.nanog@monmotha.net )> wrote:On 1/2/19 6:47 AM, Nick Edwards wrote:
There are 260 villas, and no coax.
Is there a logical way to distribute the termination? You might be able to get better performance (not that you perhaps care, in this case) at minimal additional cost if you can do building-local termination of each customer circuit and then backhaul on e.g. bonded VDSL2 or G.FAST over shorter distances (perhaps hopping building to building). I'm assuming there's no data grade copper or fiber if there's no coax. Obviously if you've got those, distributed termination makes even more sense. If you do want a centralized solution, an Adtran TA5006 (the small chassis) with 6x 48 port VDSL2 combo modules (with or without vectoring, depending on your needs) would do the job (though it fills the chassis and doesn't allow for expansion, so the full-size TA5000 may be desirable). I've played (and am playing with) the same system but with GPON termination and have been happy with it so far. -- Brandon Martin
I was thinking the same thing. They're a few years out of support, but the Zhone 42xx IP DSLAM provides a 1Gbps ethernet uplink and 24 ADSL2+ DSL user ports per 1U chassis (stackable to achieve 192 ports total). Wish they were available in AC for non-telco use. http://support.zhone.com/support/manuals/docs/42/4200-A2-GN21-40.pdf You could pair these with a pfSense appliance (or an x86 PC running the free software) to provide DHCP, DNS, etc - or use the built in pfSense captive portal to provide additional authentication and accounting per user. pfSense can provide NAT and FW if needed, or these features can be disabled to use globally routable IP4/IP6 addresses. As far as support goes, backup your pfsense and DLSAM configs when you finish the project and the subscriber accounts and DSL modems could be maintained by a local admin through the pfSense web interface with no need to touch the DSLAMs or anything CLI. --Blake Shawn L via NANOG wrote on 1/4/2019 8:59 AM:
Might want to look for old Zhone ip bitstorm dslams. There should be a bunch on the used market. They do all of the ATM conversions internally so you just need to feed them with ethernet.
-----Original Message----- From: "Nick Edwards" <nick.z.edwards@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, January 4, 2019 9:36am To: "Brandon Martin" <lists.nanog@monmotha.net> Cc: "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: IP Dslams
They don't have a large budget and although I'm yet to get prices on adtran's (understandable, holidays 'n all) I doubt it will fit within their budget, it's looking more like getting a few planet dslams and configuring a linux box as the bng, been 10 years since I've had to do that kind of setup, memories hazy, but I know it worked, and well, so thanks to all for suggestions but the adtrans and nokias are not for those on shoe string budgets, which wouldnt even allow me to include an asr1k for the bng, and although it would allow for, I'd rather not grab an ebay 7200/7300 :)
On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 10:52 PM Brandon Martin <lists.nanog@monmotha.net <mailto:lists.nanog@monmotha.net>> wrote:
On 1/2/19 6:47 AM, Nick Edwards wrote: > There are 260 villas, and no coax.
Is there a logical way to distribute the termination? You might be able to get better performance (not that you perhaps care, in this case) at minimal additional cost if you can do building-local termination of each customer circuit and then backhaul on e.g. bonded VDSL2 or G.FAST over shorter distances (perhaps hopping building to building).
I'm assuming there's no data grade copper or fiber if there's no coax. Obviously if you've got those, distributed termination makes even more sense.
If you do want a centralized solution, an Adtran TA5006 (the small chassis) with 6x 48 port VDSL2 combo modules (with or without vectoring, depending on your needs) would do the job (though it fills the chassis and doesn't allow for expansion, so the full-size TA5000 may be desirable). I've played (and am playing with) the same system but with GPON termination and have been happy with it so far. -- Brandon Martin
The "newer" replacement for the 42xx series was the bitstorm (Bitstorm-RP2-152-AC), and they came in AC as well and 48 ports -- in a 1.5 U I think . -----Original Message----- From: "Blake Hudson" <blake@ispn.net> Sent: Friday, January 4, 2019 12:47pm To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: IP Dslams I was thinking the same thing. They're a few years out of support, but the Zhone 42xx IP DSLAM provides a 1Gbps ethernet uplink and 24 ADSL2+ DSL user ports per 1U chassis (stackable to achieve 192 ports total). Wish they were available in AC for non-telco use. [ http://support.zhone.com/support/manuals/docs/42/4200-A2-GN21-40.pdf ]( http://support.zhone.com/support/manuals/docs/42/4200-A2-GN21-40.pdf ) You could pair these with a pfSense appliance (or an x86 PC running the free software) to provide DHCP, DNS, etc - or use the built in pfSense captive portal to provide additional authentication and accounting per user. pfSense can provide NAT and FW if needed, or these features can be disabled to use globally routable IP4/IP6 addresses. As far as support goes, backup your pfsense and DLSAM configs when you finish the project and the subscriber accounts and DSL modems could be maintained by a local admin through the pfSense web interface with no need to touch the DSLAMs or anything CLI. --Blake Shawn L via NANOG wrote on 1/4/2019 8:59 AM: Might want to look for old Zhone ip bitstorm dslams. There should be a bunch on the used market. They do all of the ATM conversions internally so you just need to feed them with ethernet. -----Original Message----- From: "Nick Edwards" [ <nick.z.edwards@gmail.com> ]( mailto:nick.z.edwards@gmail.com ) Sent: Friday, January 4, 2019 9:36am To: "Brandon Martin" [ <lists.nanog@monmotha.net> ]( mailto:lists.nanog@monmotha.net ) Cc: "NANOG" [ <nanog@nanog.org> ]( mailto:nanog@nanog.org ) Subject: Re: IP Dslams They don't have a large budget and although I'm yet to get prices on adtran's (understandable, holidays 'n all) I doubt it will fit within their budget, it's looking more like getting a few planet dslams and configuring a linux box as the bng, been 10 years since I've had to do that kind of setup, memories hazy, but I know it worked, and well, so thanks to all for suggestions but the adtrans and nokias are not for those on shoe string budgets, which wouldnt even allow me to include an asr1k for the bng, and although it would allow for, I'd rather not grab an ebay 7200/7300 :) On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 10:52 PM Brandon Martin <[ lists.nanog@monmotha.net ]( mailto:lists.nanog@monmotha.net )> wrote:On 1/2/19 6:47 AM, Nick Edwards wrote:
There are 260 villas, and no coax.
Is there a logical way to distribute the termination? You might be able to get better performance (not that you perhaps care, in this case) at minimal additional cost if you can do building-local termination of each customer circuit and then backhaul on e.g. bonded VDSL2 or G.FAST over shorter distances (perhaps hopping building to building). I'm assuming there's no data grade copper or fiber if there's no coax. Obviously if you've got those, distributed termination makes even more sense. If you do want a centralized solution, an Adtran TA5006 (the small chassis) with 6x 48 port VDSL2 combo modules (with or without vectoring, depending on your needs) would do the job (though it fills the chassis and doesn't allow for expansion, so the full-size TA5000 may be desirable). I've played (and am playing with) the same system but with GPON termination and have been happy with it so far. -- Brandon Martin
On 1/4/19 12:53 PM, Shawn L via NANOG wrote:
The "newer" replacement for the 42xx series was the bitstorm (Bitstorm-RP2-152-AC), and they came in AC as well and 48 ports -- in a 1.5 U I think .
Yep, that's probably the one you want to look at. I've got one on a shelf. Looks like a nice box. Pity it has no firmware on it. It does not have POTS built in, so you'd have to generate that somehow. An old Adit 600 with a bunch of FXS cards and CMG router might do it on the cheap. -- Brandon Martin
You might start hunting on the used market for Occam/Calix B6 equipment, specifically the B6-252 ADSL2+ and POTS card and the 12 slot chassis. You'll have to put in some supporting infrastructure, but they do work well, and I know of at least two aftermarket repair places that will repair them for a reasonable (for the telecom world) cost. On Fri, Jan 4, 2019, 06:38 Nick Edwards <nick.z.edwards@gmail.com wrote:
They don't have a large budget and although I'm yet to get prices on adtran's (understandable, holidays 'n all) I doubt it will fit within their budget, it's looking more like getting a few planet dslams and configuring a linux box as the bng, been 10 years since I've had to do that kind of setup, memories hazy, but I know it worked, and well, so thanks to all for suggestions but the adtrans and nokias are not for those on shoe string budgets, which wouldnt even allow me to include an asr1k for the bng, and although it would allow for, I'd rather not grab an ebay 7200/7300 :)
On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 10:52 PM Brandon Martin <lists.nanog@monmotha.net> wrote:
On 1/2/19 6:47 AM, Nick Edwards wrote:
There are 260 villas, and no coax.
Is there a logical way to distribute the termination? You might be able to get better performance (not that you perhaps care, in this case) at minimal additional cost if you can do building-local termination of each customer circuit and then backhaul on e.g. bonded VDSL2 or G.FAST over shorter distances (perhaps hopping building to building).
I'm assuming there's no data grade copper or fiber if there's no coax. Obviously if you've got those, distributed termination makes even more sense.
If you do want a centralized solution, an Adtran TA5006 (the small chassis) with 6x 48 port VDSL2 combo modules (with or without vectoring, depending on your needs) would do the job (though it fills the chassis and doesn't allow for expansion, so the full-size TA5000 may be desirable). I've played (and am playing with) the same system but with GPON termination and have been happy with it so far. -- Brandon Martin
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Just a thought, would a two wire Ethernet extender technology (eg Phybridge) provide you with a simpler solution? xDSL needs a lot of infrastructure for a low port count (& budget) application. I have no idea if you can split the baseband out to provide POTS over the same pair, but even if you can't, Ethernet plus a VoIP phone or ATA to each unit may end up cheaper than a shed load of carrier oriented xDSL infra? On Mon, 31 Dec 2018 at 19:15, Nick Edwards <nick.z.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:
Howdy, We have a requirement for an aged care facility to provide voice and data, we have the voice worked out, but data, WiFi is out of the question, so are looking for IP-Dslams, preferably a system that is all-in-one, or self contained, as in contains its own BBRAS/LNS/PPP server/Radius, such as has a property managment API, or even just a webpage manager where admin can add in new residents when they arive, or delete when they depart I know these used to be available many years ago, but that vendor has like many vanished, only requirement is for ADSL2+, prefer units with either 48 ports or multiples of (192 etc) and have filtered voice out ports (telco50/rj21 etc)
If anyone knows of such units, would appreciate some details on them, brand/model suppliers if known, etc, we can try get out google fu back if we have some steering:)
Thank Y'all
(resent - original never made it to the list for some gremlin reason)
-- -- Rob Pickering, rob@pickering.org
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018, Nick Edwards wrote:
Howdy, We have a requirement for an aged care facility to provide voice and data, we have the voice worked out, but data, WiFi is out of the question, so are looking for IP-Dslams, preferably a system that is all-in-one, or self contained, as in contains its own BBRAS/LNS/PPP server/Radius, such as has a property managment API, or even just a webpage manager where admin can
Are you sure you need all of that? When I designed ADSL solutions ~15 years ago I built with Paradyne DSLAM with ethernet uplink, then we used rfc 1483 bridged over ATM, so no need for PPP, radius or anything. It was just IPoETHERNEToATM and all the regular IPoE mechanisms could be used (DHCP etc). So we just bundled the DSLAM with an L3 switch and that was that. One vlan per customer which solved the customer isolation problem. Customer could run modem in either bridged mode or terminate the IPoETHoATM PVC on the RG itself. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se
Hi Nick How many devices are you looking for? Consider ZyXEL 1248: https://www.zyxel.com/uk/en/products_services/48-port-Temperature-Hardened-A... For PPP and those stuff, you can rely on MikroTik. i.e. https://mikrotik.com/product/rb4011igs_rm @199USD you would have PPP(oE) aggregation + user manager panel and much more Regards Payam From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> On Behalf Of Nick Edwards Sent: December 28, 2018 5:36 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: IP Dslams Howdy, We have a requirement for an aged care facility to provide voice and data, we have the voice worked out, but data, WiFi is out of the question, so are looking for IP-Dslams, preferably a system that is all-in-one, or self contained, as in contains its own BBRAS/LNS/PPP server/Radius, such as has a property managment API, or even just a webpage manager where admin can add in new residents when they arive, or delete when they depart I know these used to be available many years ago, but that vendor has like many vanished, only requirement is for ADSL2+, prefer units with either 48 ports or multiples of (192 etc) and have filtered voice out ports (telco50/rj21 etc) If anyone knows of such units, would appreciate some details on them, brand/model suppliers if known, etc, we can try get out google fu back if we have some steering:) Thank Y'all (resent - original never made it to the list for some gremlin reason)
Hi,
How many devices are you looking for? Consider ZyXEL 1248: https://www.zyxel.com/uk/en/products_services/48-port-Temperature-Hardened-A...
I had bad experiences with those. When testing IPv6 they messed up the data inside the PPP session. The client would negotiate IPv6 just fine, but then no IPv6 packet ever made it through the Zyxel. I replaced them with Draytek VigorAccess, which worked fine for testing. My customer that used those Draytek's stopped using them last year. If anyone is interested I can ask them if they are still in storage somewhere. Cheers, Sander
Hi -----Original Message----- From: Sander Steffann <sander@steffann.nl> Sent: January 5, 2019 7:05 AM Hi,
How many devices are you looking for? Consider ZyXEL 1248: https://www.zyxel.com/uk/en/products_services/48-port-Temperature-Hardened-A...
I had bad experiences with those. When testing IPv6 they messed up the data inside the PPP session. The client would negotiate IPv6 just fine, >but then no IPv6 packet ever made it through the Zyxel. I replaced them with Draytek VigorAccess, which worked fine for testing. My customer ?>that used those Draytek's stopped using them last year. If anyone is interested I can ask them if they are still in storage somewhere.
Not sure about 1248, but my fellow has tested 5106 and IES6000 (https://www.zyxel.com/products_services/5U-6-slot-Chassis-MSAN-IES-5106-Seri...) both work fine
Hi,
How many devices are you looking for? Consider ZyXEL 1248: https://www.zyxel.com/uk/en/products_services/48-port-Temperature-Hardened-A...
I had bad experiences with those.
My apologies, my problems were with a different Zyxel model (which I don't recall anymore). Cheers, Sander
participants (14)
-
Blake Hudson -
Brandon Martin -
Carl Peterson -
Colton Conor -
Erik Sundberg -
Jason Baugher -
Jeff Shultz -
Mikael Abrahamsson -
Nick Edwards -
Paul Stewart -
Payam Poursaied -
Rob Pickering -
Sander Steffann -
Shawn L