At 01:12 PM 5/25/98 +0400, Alex P. Rudnev wrote:
You are wrong a little. The difference is:
- if you use MS and it don't work, your boss blame to BILL GATES.
- if you use FreeBSD (or Linux, through FreeBSD is better for the networking) and it don't work, your boss blame _guess, who? - YOU_ .
Nope, buying IBM/M$ to secure your job is a canard. In both cases, if you are an employee you will lose credibility (lose enough of that and your job follows), as an owner of a business you lose customers (lose enough of *that* and you'll have to get a real job). If an employee causes sufficient loss of business through bad decisions, they get canned (back to credibility again). We run Caldera here, with WinNT workstations. This is not simply because we are a Caldera VAR. Linux servers are much more reliable than WinNT, although we have *one* of those also, no choice and it's constantly in Intensive Care (Netscape ES3.51 locks up regularly or NT auto-boots and we have to MANUALLY enter the VeriSign password. We are working on an Linux/Apache-SSL/PostgreSQL/self-certifying solution). BTW, Caldera does not yet have an Enterprise Server solution, but there's one on the way.
That's a matter.
The reason is simple. While we sit here bitching about this "minor" issue and that "minor" issue, like the state of the net, the S&M (Sales and Marketing, but sometimes I wonder) people are out there from Mickeysoft promoting the "No one ever got fired for buying M$" message. NT is a >corporate< product. This, in my view, means that you don't care if it works as long as you can hire someone else to fix it and your budget is maintained. Hell, if we started using "free" products, we wouldn't have license fees to pay and my budget to run a 100 node NT network would disappear. Budgets = Power in that sad world.
...
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Come on guys.... not on nanog. Can't you smell a clever market research plot from Microsoft when you see one? Whoever started this is just testing the waters for embedded NT... Dirk PS: Yes, Linux will kill NT as server platform. No doubt about it. This list has a different purpose. On Mon, May 25, 1998 at 09:23:13AM -0700, Roeland M.J. Meyer wrote:
At 01:12 PM 5/25/98 +0400, Alex P. Rudnev wrote:
You are wrong a little. The difference is:
- if you use MS and it don't work, your boss blame to BILL GATES.
- if you use FreeBSD (or Linux, through FreeBSD is better for the networking) and it don't work, your boss blame _guess, who? - YOU_ .
Nope, buying IBM/M$ to secure your job is a canard. In both cases, if you are an employee you will lose credibility (lose enough of that and your job follows), as an owner of a business you lose customers (lose enough of *that* and you'll have to get a real job). If an employee causes sufficient loss of business through bad decisions, they get canned (back to credibility again).
We run Caldera here, with WinNT workstations. This is not simply because we are a Caldera VAR. Linux servers are much more reliable than WinNT, although we have *one* of those also, no choice and it's constantly in Intensive Care (Netscape ES3.51 locks up regularly or NT auto-boots and we have to MANUALLY enter the VeriSign password. We are working on an Linux/Apache-SSL/PostgreSQL/self-certifying solution). BTW, Caldera does not yet have an Enterprise Server solution, but there's one on the way.
That's a matter.
The reason is simple. While we sit here bitching about this "minor" issue and that "minor" issue, like the state of the net, the S&M (Sales and Marketing, but sometimes I wonder) people are out there from Mickeysoft promoting the "No one ever got fired for buying M$" message. NT is a >corporate< product. This, in my view, means that you don't care if it works as long as you can hire someone else to fix it and your budget is maintained. Hell, if we started using "free" products, we wouldn't have license fees to pay and my budget to run a 100 node NT network would disappear. Budgets = Power in that sad world.
...
_________________________________________________ Morgan Hill Software Company, Inc. Colorado Springs, CO - Livermore, CA - Morgan Hill, CA Domain Administrator MHSC2-DOM and MHSC3-DOM Administrative and Technical contact ____________________________________________ InterNIC Id: MHSC hostmaster (HM239-ORG) e-mail: <mailto:hostmaster@mhsc.com>mailto:hostmaster@mhsc.com web -pages: <http://www.mhsc.com/>http://www.mhsc.com/
At 12:36 PM -0400 5/25/98, dirk@power.net wrote:
Can't you smell a clever market research plot from Microsoft when you see one? Whoever started this is just testing the waters for embedded NT...
Yup. The question was originally posted by by someone from Wired to get info on an article for someone else from Wired. Most likely they are doing a review of a) berkeley networks product or b) a review of the new book "Gigabit Ethernet Handbook" by Stephen Saunders. This book devotes a whole chapter (only about 20 pages) to Berkeley Networks "NT Switches", describing them as a "new class of switched internetworking platform ... to transform today's networks from passive data conduits to application-aware communication and control infrastructures" (pg 180). BTW, "application-aware" means the ability to block Doom traffic. (their example). Although the book is allegedly technical, this chapter is nothing but marketing BS. (And full of warmed over ideas, recast as "brilliant inovations", which is typical of MS partners, to boot) This chapter was written by 4 people from Berkeley Networks, including the VP of Marketing. This chapter clearly belongs in a marketing brochure, not a book on gigabit ethernet. So, I'll pan both the book, and judging from the chapter on Berkeley Networks "NT switch", their product as well. I really don't think that (note the quotes) "NT-Switches represent a fundamental shift in the business model of networking vendors." (pg 201, Conclusion: The Future of NT-Switches) The chapter makes it sound like everyone has one, and thats all they use. Unless the world changed a lot since Friday, I don't think this is the case. In fact, does *anyone* actually have any of these? --Dean ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Plain Aviation, Inc dean@av8.com LAN/WAN/UNIX/NT/TCPIP/DCE http://www.av8.com We Make IT Fly! (617)242-3091 x246 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
participants (3)
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Dean Anderson -
dirk＠power.net -
Roeland M.J. Meyer