--- bill@herrin.us wrote: From: William Herrin <bill@herrin.us> No, it isn't. Contrary to mailing list best practices, NANOG unsubscribe information is stubbornly stashed in the email headers ---------------------------------------------- That's a feature. Not a bug. :-) scott
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 8:24 PM, Scott Weeks <surfer@mauigateway.com> wrote:
No, it isn't. Contrary to mailing list best practices, NANOG unsubscribe information is stubbornly stashed in the email headers
That's a feature. Not a bug. :-)
I wonder if the "feature" has anything to do with the number of increasing number of NANOG list messages that I have to fish out of my gmail spam folder. Particularly annoying with the CIDR and BGP reports that I've had to fish out every single week for months now. -Bill -- William D. Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. ...................... Web: <http://bill.herrin.us/> Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
there are handy gmail filters that can fix this for you... On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 6:46 PM, William Herrin <bill@herrin.us> wrote:
I wonder if the "feature" has anything to do with the number of increasing number of NANOG list messages that I have to fish out of my gmail spam folder. Particularly annoying with the CIDR and BGP reports that I've had to fish out every single week for months now.
-Bill
-- William D. Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. ...................... Web: <http://bill.herrin.us/> Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
2011/3/11 Ryan Landry <ryan.landry@gmail.com>:
there are handy gmail filters that can fix this for you...
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 6:46 PM, William Herrin <bill@herrin.us> wrote:
I wonder if the "feature" has anything to do with the number of increasing number of NANOG list messages that I have to fish out of my gmail spam folder. Particularly annoying with the CIDR and BGP reports that I've had to fish out every single week for months now.
-Bill
-- William D. Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. ...................... Web: <http://bill.herrin.us/> Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
Well it's a mailman server so you could email nanog-request@nanog.org with the subject: unsubscribe
On 3/11/2011 8:24 PM, Scott Weeks wrote:
--- bill@herrin.us wrote: From: William Herrin <bill@herrin.us>
No, it isn't. Contrary to mailing list best practices, NANOG unsubscribe information is stubbornly stashed in the email headers ----------------------------------------------
That's a feature. Not a bug. :-)
Actually, it's RFC 2369 :) Jeff
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 10:28 PM, Jeff Kell <jeff-kell@utc.edu> wrote:
On 3/11/2011 8:24 PM, Scott Weeks wrote:
--- bill@herrin.us wrote: From: William Herrin <bill@herrin.us>
No, it isn't. Contrary to mailing list best practices, NANOG unsubscribe information is stubbornly stashed in the email headers ----------------------------------------------
That's a feature. Not a bug. :-)
Actually, it's RFC 2369 :)
Anyone have a list of MUAs that actually support RFC 2369 with subscription management widgets in the GUI? Surely someone has written one but I can't seem to find any documentation to that effect. On the other hand, the very first guideline at http://www.mail-abuse.com/an_listmgntgdlines.html is: "Mailing list administrators must provide [...] clear and effective instructions for unsubscribing from a mailing list." Hidden in the headers is rather less than clear or effective. Even that lightweight, the CAN-SPAM act, calls for each message to contain "clear and conspicuous notice of the opportunity [...] to decline to receive further" messages. -Bill -- William D. Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. ...................... Web: <http://bill.herrin.us/> Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
Anyone have a list of MUAs that actually support RFC 2369 with subscription management widgets in the GUI? Surely someone has written one but I can't seem to find any documentation to that effect.
Alpine, which has what must be the cruddiest GUI on the planet, does. Too bad people prefer glitz to function. R's, John
--As of March 12, 2011 3:02:38 PM +0000, John Levine is alleged to have said:
Anyone have a list of MUAs that actually support RFC 2369 with subscription management widgets in the GUI? Surely someone has written one but I can't seem to find any documentation to that effect.
Alpine, which has what must be the cruddiest GUI on the planet, does. Too bad people prefer glitz to function.
--As for the rest, it is mine. Squirrelmail and Kmail both do as well, although in both cases it's an option that needs to be configured. (In Squirrelmail's case it's actually a plugin, I think.) Daniel T. Staal --------------------------------------------------------------- This email copyright the author. Unless otherwise noted, you are expressly allowed to retransmit, quote, or otherwise use the contents for non-commercial purposes. This copyright will expire 5 years after the author's death, or in 30 years, whichever is longer, unless such a period is in excess of local copyright law. ---------------------------------------------------------------
On 3/12/2011 10:02 AM, John Levine wrote:
Anyone have a list of MUAs that actually support RFC 2369 with subscription management widgets in the GUI? Surely someone has written one but I can't seem to find any documentation to that effect. Alpine, which has what must be the cruddiest GUI on the planet, does. Too bad people prefer glitz to function.
And Glitzy MUAs and MTAs tend to be the least RFC compliant of all. Thunderbird (older versions) had a plugin (Display Mailing List Headers) that would do it, but the plugin is not compatible with the current version[s] of Thunderbird. Any MUA that has a toggle or view to "display all headers" may indirectly do it if they create "clickable links" for http: and mailto: directives, e.g., from this list:
List-Id: North American Network Operators Group <nanog.nanog.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog>, <mailto:nanog-request@nanog.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog> List-Post: <mailto:nanog@nanog.org> List-Help: <mailto:nanog-request@nanog.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog>, <mailto:nanog-request@nanog.org?subject=subscribe>
Jeff
William Herrin <bill@herrin.us> writes:
Anyone have a list of MUAs that actually support RFC 2369 with subscription management widgets in the GUI? Surely someone has written one but I can't seem to find any documentation to that effect.
Gnus? Jens, Gnus user since 1999 -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Foelderichstr. 40 | 13595 Berlin, Germany | +49-151-18721264 | | http://blog.quux.de | jabber: jenslink@guug.de | ------------------- | -------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 08:16:19 EST, William Herrin said:
Anyone have a list of MUAs that actually support RFC 2369 with subscription management widgets in the GUI? Surely someone has written one but I can't seem to find any documentation to that effect.
EXMH had that support long ago: cvs repository 4/9/1999 Support for RFC2369. If a message contains RFC2369 compliant headers, a "List..." menu will appear with List related items on it. [ Note that this makes visible a mailto url related bug which you'll find described in exmh.BUGS ] -cwg
On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 3:10 PM, <Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu> wrote:
EXMH had that support long ago:
cvs repository 4/9/1999 Support for RFC2369. If a message contains RFC2369 compliant headers, a "List..." menu will appear with List related items on it. [ Note that this makes visible a mailto url related bug which you'll find described in exmh.BUGS ] -cwg
Previous big fan of NMH reporting in - was my favorite email client for many many years :)
On 12/03/11 5:16 AM, William Herrin wrote:
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 10:28 PM, Jeff Kell<jeff-kell@utc.edu> wrote:
On 3/11/2011 8:24 PM, Scott Weeks wrote:
--- bill@herrin.us wrote: From: William Herrin<bill@herrin.us>
No, it isn't. Contrary to mailing list best practices, NANOG unsubscribe information is stubbornly stashed in the email headers ----------------------------------------------
That's a feature. Not a bug. :-) Actually, it's RFC 2369 :) Anyone have a list of MUAs
I don't have a list, but if you are viewing the email using the gmail web interface, and select the "show details" interface, you will see: from Scott Weeks <surfer@mauigateway.com> reply-to surfer@mauigateway.com to nanog@nanog.org date Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 5:24 PM subject Re: Switching Email mailing list nanog.nanog.org Filter messages from this mailing list mailed-by nanog.org unsubscribe Unsubscribe from this mailing-list Where "Filter messages from this mailing list" is a link, and "Unsubscribe from this mailing-list" is a link. Unfortunately, there's no confirmation or "undo" when you try to unsubscribe (as I just did, to test it). Oops! jc
In message <AANLkTinvbCODXiCQHMcLoP7qG3Mh4388mRP1uEvvkRcF@mail.gmail.com>, Will iam Herrin writes:
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 10:28 PM, Jeff Kell <jeff-kell@utc.edu> wrote:
On 3/11/2011 8:24 PM, Scott Weeks wrote:
--- bill@herrin.us wrote: From: William Herrin <bill@herrin.us>
No, it isn't. Contrary to mailing list best practices, NANOG unsubscribe information is stubbornly stashed in the email headers ----------------------------------------------
That's a feature. =A0Not a bug. =A0:-)
Actually, it's RFC 2369 =A0:)
Anyone have a list of MUAs that actually support RFC 2369 with subscription management widgets in the GUI? Surely someone has written one but I can't seem to find any documentation to that effect.
On the other hand, the very first guideline at http://www.mail-abuse.com/an_listmgntgdlines.html is: "Mailing list administrators must provide [...] clear and effective instructions for unsubscribing from a mailing list." Hidden in the headers is rather less than clear or effective.
Even that lightweight, the CAN-SPAM act, calls for each message to contain "clear and conspicuous notice of the opportunity [...] to decline to receive further" messages.
Headers are the ONLY way to do this so it works in all languages for all the planet. "Click here to unsubscribe" is a joke when it is written in a language you don't read. As for the CAN-SPAM act, it's also a joke. It doesn't require a pre-existing relationship where there is a chance the recipient can read the message.
-Bill
--=20 William D. Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com=A0 bill@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. ...................... Web: <http://bill.herrin.us/> Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
-- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka@isc.org
participants (12)
-
Daniel Staal -
François Rousseau -
JC Dill -
Jeff Kell -
Jens Link -
John Levine -
Mark Andrews -
Max -
Ryan Landry -
Scott Weeks -
Valdis.Kletnieks＠vt.edu -
William Herrin