I post some negative messages about ORBS and RBL and look what happens! Gee, isn't it co-incidental that my mailer is now blocked? It sounds like straight-up intimidation actions to me. If this is the action of a responsible anti-spam fanatic then it is an even greater indictment of the entire RBL/ORBS movement. The hostname is right, DNS is healthy, including my ORSC root-zone servers, and I am running current sendmail with anti-relay active. Gee, maybe they're making a statement ...ya think? That's alright, woods just hit my kill-file anyway >plonk< But, this seriously indicates that this ORBS/RBL think is getting way out of hand. Typical vigilante pattern.
-----Original Message----- From: Mail Delivery Subsystem [mailto:MAILER-DAEMON@mhsc.com] Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 11:46 PM To: rmeyer@mhsc.com Subject: Returned mail: Service unavailable
The original message was received at Thu, 10 Aug 2000 23:46:01 -0700 from peregrin.lvrmr.mhsc.com [199.108.175.234]
----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- <woods@weird.com>
HELO condor.lvrmr.mhsc.com <<< 550-You are not permitted to send mail from condor.lvrmr.mhsc.com[199.108.175.226]. <<< 550-All SMTP connections have been blocked from that address, <<< 550-possibly because it has been listed in one of the many RBLs, <<< 550-or possibly because your DNS is broken or your hostname is wrong. <<< 550- <<< 550-Please forward this message to your own LOCAL
----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to mail.weird.com.: postmaster and ask <<< 550-them to contact us regarding this issue. <<< 550- <<< 550-Postmaster@[199.108.175.226]: Please contact <postmaster@most.weird.com> <<< 550-(via an unblocked server of course!) for exact details on why your <<< 550-mailer's connection was rejected. You must include your IP number <<< 550 given above in order to receive an accurate answer. 554 <woods@weird.com>... Service unavailable
[see disclaimer header; affiliation for identification, not representation; limited time offer; batteries not included; etc etc] On Fri, Aug 11, 2000 at 12:49:07AM -0700, Roeland M.J. Meyer wrote:
I post some negative messages about ORBS and RBL and look what happens! Gee, isn't it co-incidental that my mailer is now blocked? [snip] the action of a responsible anti-spam fanatic then it is an even greater indictment of the entire RBL/ORBS movement. [snip] But, this seriously indicates that this ORBS/RBL think is getting way out of hand. Typical vigilante pattern.
I am behind in the thread, but all I saw was the rightful panning of ORBS. As usual, when this thread comes up, I'll point out that there is a vast gulf of difference between whim-driven scanning (ORBS) and any of the lists from *actual*abuse* (MAPS RBL and RSS) or volunteered information from network mangers/direct observation (MAPS DUL). See http://mail-abuse.org/ for full details. Regardless what any spammers, lunatics on usenet, or press-release- and mailing-list-post-regurgitating so-called journalists think, there is no connection between the two. Do not lump them together, period. Joe, saying all he will and pointing people to the archives for the last N iterations of this holy war. -- Joe Provo Voice 508.486.7471 Director, Internet Planning & Design Fax 508.229.2375 Network Deployment & Management, RCN <joe.provo@rcn.com>
"Roeland M.J. Meyer" wrote:
It sounds like straight-up intimidation actions to me. If this is the action of a responsible anti-spam fanatic then it is an even greater indictment of the entire RBL/ORBS movement.
I can sympathize. However, IMHO, RBL/ORBS should not be lumped together.. While the purpose is similar, the end results aren't. Again, IMHO, Sometimes I think one is arguing the hyperbole of the other. .02
Roeland, Seeing where the bounce came from, I would not get too upset. They (he?) cut off their noses to spite their faces. My system is not on any RBL/ORBS list, but I can't mail there because they mandate that the sending system have an MX record, in direct contravention of RFC1123 and others. My sending system does not normally receive mail and it is not listed in any header field. I have no intention of adding an MX just so I can explain to Greg that he is wrong about something. But PLEASE don't lump ORBS with the MAPS and related systems. R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: oberman@es.net Phone: +1 510 486-8634
Kevin Oberman Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 7:47 AM
Roeland,
But PLEASE don't lump ORBS with the MAPS and related systems.
Okay, I get the point and apologize to the RBL folks. They are different. I just found out this morning that my systems tests out for false positive, as I knew it would someday. I normally work on-client-site and have to allow limited relay in order to send my email, from client-site, both, for myself and my staff. About a month ago, there was a discussion on this very topic. There is no way I can run my business without some SMTP relay capability. If ORBS wants to fix that then THEY can donate the resources to do so. In the meanwhile, MHSC systems have NEVER been used to send spam, ever. They can't, without setting off alarms all over the place. As regards the multiple PTR records (one of them being my MX record <mail.mhsc.com>), someone please send me the RFC while says that is not allowed.
participants (4)
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Joe Provo - Network Architect -
Kevin Oberman -
Richard Irving -
Roeland M.J. Meyer