charitable organization for the shrinkage of the global routing table
The slopes of the curves maintained by Geoff, Erik and Tony appear to be steepening, and while 10**5 routes is a no-brainer to a modern core router, 10**6 is hard, and nothing known will deal with 10**7. We all save enormous money by making sure CIDR keeps the curve as flat as reasonably possible. It seems that getting people to be good aggregators is pretty tricky, in part because alot of the offenders don't seem to have the time to follow the operational forums in which their names come up again and again. At the last IEPG I suggested we collectively send "slot-occupation" bills for small numbers of dollars per long prefix to the worst offenders, in hopes they get the message, or pay each of us for necessary equipment upgrades, operational costs, R&D, and so forth. Since nobody seems as crazy as me, it was counter-suggested that I start a charitable clearing-house, which would send out bills on behalf of "everyone" to the baddies. Hey, maybe some folks will pay, maybe some will aggregate (having gotten the message), while others will have to be handed over to maximally aggressive collections agencies, or even *gasp* be subjected to filtering by one or more providers. I have a simple alternative proposal to put pressure on the "bad guys". Project: set up streaming porn servers that, when a source connects from -------- an address block announced by an AS in the list of Tony Bates's top-N bad aggregators, results in a message like this: Dear Prospective User - You are connecting from [A.A.A.A], an IP address in a netblock [P.P.P.P/M] which should be aggregated by your ISP or one of its upstream providers into a longer prefix. Please see the CIDR Report Project at http://www.employees.org/~tbates/ for an indication of the growth of the global routing table, which is an expensive phenomenon exacerbated by your upstream provider(s). REWARD REWARD REWARD If you can convince your upstream provider(s) to aggregate, renumber, or otherwise withdraw [P.P.P.P/M], we will give you FREE XXX hours of FREE access to the streaming porn on this site. Otherwise, please have your credit-card handy. All proceeds go to the charitable fund for the elimination of long prefixes and the drainage of the routing table swamp, much of which is spent on maintaining this excellent source of adult entertainment. Now then, to kick-start the project, we need some bandwidth (easy enough), some sort of content distribution network or server farm (also easy), a studio in a convenient legal jurisdiction (straightforward), lighting, technical support, that kind of thing (simple opex). Oh, and models. Oh Vint, are you busy? We need your sexy strip tease. It's for the good of the Internet, promoting its long-term sustainability and growth. Other suggestions welcome. Sean.
Sean,
Project: set up streaming porn servers that ... You are connecting from [A.A.A.A], an IP address in a netblock [P.P.P.P/M] which should be aggregated by your ISP or one of its upstream providers into a longer prefix.
So it's not the length, it's what you do with it that counts? -- Alex Bligh VP Core Network, XO Communications - http://www.xo.com/ (formerly Nextlink Inc, Concentric Network Corporation GX Networks, Xara Networks)
At 11:42 25/01/01 -0800, smd@clock.org wrote: A different idea: Many of us get these "hacking/spamming reports" generated by end users due to some portscan or spam. Typical systems sending these out are Lockdown 2000, Spamcop, etc. Many different ones on the market. Very automated, not always looking up the proper RADB info, but they do get ones attention sometimes. Why not some volunteer create a program like this for sysadmins? Every so often, I would double click it, it would telnet/ssh over to the router of my choice (I supply the user/pswd), do a 'term len 0', 'sho ip bgp' and when completed - process the results, select out the worse non-aggregators, find their info in ARIN/RIPE/APNIC, and fire off some preformatted emails to the technical and admin contacts at these ISPs. Or have the program access Tony's latest CIDR walk data at http://www.employees.org:80/~tbates/cidr-report.html and do the contact lookup from that point. Might even be easier. -Hank
The slopes of the curves maintained by Geoff, Erik and Tony appear to be steepening, and while 10**5 routes is a no-brainer to a modern core router, 10**6 is hard, and nothing known will deal with 10**7. We all save enormous money by making sure CIDR keeps the curve as flat as reasonably possible.
It seems that getting people to be good aggregators is pretty tricky, in part because alot of the offenders don't seem to have the time to follow the operational forums in which their names come up again and again.
At the last IEPG I suggested we collectively send "slot-occupation" bills for small numbers of dollars per long prefix to the worst offenders, in hopes they get the message, or pay each of us for necessary equipment upgrades, operational costs, R&D, and so forth. Since nobody seems as crazy as me, it was counter-suggested that I start a charitable clearing-house, which would send out bills on behalf of "everyone" to the baddies. Hey, maybe some folks will pay, maybe some will aggregate (having gotten the message), while others will have to be handed over to maximally aggressive collections agencies, or even *gasp* be subjected to filtering by one or more providers.
I have a simple alternative proposal to put pressure on the "bad guys".
Project: set up streaming porn servers that, when a source connects from -------- an address block announced by an AS in the list of Tony Bates's top-N bad aggregators, results in a message like this:
Dear Prospective User -
You are connecting from [A.A.A.A], an IP address in a netblock [P.P.P.P/M] which should be aggregated by your ISP or one of its upstream providers into a longer prefix. Please see the CIDR Report Project at http://www.employees.org/~tbates/ for an indication of the growth of the global routing table, which is an expensive phenomenon exacerbated by your upstream provider(s).
REWARD REWARD REWARD
If you can convince your upstream provider(s) to aggregate, renumber, or otherwise withdraw [P.P.P.P/M], we will give you FREE XXX hours of FREE access to the streaming porn on this site.
Otherwise, please have your credit-card handy. All proceeds go to the charitable fund for the elimination of long prefixes and the drainage of the routing table swamp, much of which is spent on maintaining this excellent source of adult entertainment.
Now then, to kick-start the project, we need some bandwidth (easy enough), some sort of content distribution network or server farm (also easy), a studio in a convenient legal jurisdiction (straightforward), lighting, technical support, that kind of thing (simple opex). Oh, and models.
Oh Vint, are you busy? We need your sexy strip tease. It's for the good of the Internet, promoting its long-term sustainability and growth.
Other suggestions welcome.
Sean.
Surely, even your idealism, after having been in NANOG and networking as long as you have, hasn't stayed as pure and intact as to offer your suggestion seriously. Please tell me you're joking. We all know from prior experience what the worst offenders will do under your suggestion: They'll avoid those pesky messages not by fixing their aggregation but by changing their contact records to use dummy email addresses, or at least by installing email filters that junk anything not from their registrar. Those who likely would do the right thing upon receiving your "reminders" are equally likely to already have done the right thing on CIDR and won't be getting your reminders. I'm sufficiently confident that this would happen that I won't even bother with my aging argument about appropriate use of contact info. Much of the net is now given over to powerless corporate shift-workers who know better to fight the wrong thing when it comes down from management. Harassment doesn't work in that environment if it doesn't hit the bottom line. You would stand a better chance with Sean's "porn for CIDR" farce. --eric (Yes, I'm a cynic) At 09:05 AM +0200, 01/26/2001, Hank Nussbacher wrote:
At 11:42 25/01/01 -0800, smd@clock.org wrote:
A different idea:
Many of us get these "hacking/spamming reports" generated by end users due to some portscan or spam. Typical systems sending these out are Lockdown 2000, Spamcop, etc. Many different ones on the market. Very automated, not always looking up the proper RADB info, but they do get ones attention sometimes.
Why not some volunteer create a program like this for sysadmins? Every so often, I would double click it, it would telnet/ssh over to the router of my choice (I supply the user/pswd), do a 'term len 0', 'sho ip bgp' and when completed - process the results, select out the worse non-aggregators, find their info in ARIN/RIPE/APNIC, and fire off some preformatted emails to the technical and admin contacts at these ISPs.
Or have the program access Tony's latest CIDR walk data at http://www.employees.org:80/~tbates/cidr-report.html and do the contact lookup from that point. Might even be easier.
-Hank
The slopes of the curves maintained by Geoff, Erik and Tony appear to be steepening, and while 10**5 routes is a no-brainer to a modern core router, 10**6 is hard, and nothing known will deal with 10**7. We all save enormous money by making sure CIDR keeps the curve as flat as reasonably possible.
It seems that getting people to be good aggregators is pretty tricky, in part because alot of the offenders don't seem to have the time to follow the operational forums in which their names come up again and again.
At the last IEPG I suggested we collectively send "slot-occupation" bills for small numbers of dollars per long prefix to the worst offenders, in hopes they get the message, or pay each of us for necessary equipment upgrades, operational costs, R&D, and so forth. Since nobody seems as crazy as me, it was counter-suggested that I start a charitable clearing-house, which would send out bills on behalf of "everyone" to the baddies. Hey, maybe some folks will pay, maybe some will aggregate (having gotten the message), while others will have to be handed over to maximally aggressive collections agencies, or even *gasp* be subjected to filtering by one or more providers.
I have a simple alternative proposal to put pressure on the "bad guys".
Project: set up streaming porn servers that, when a source connects from -------- an address block announced by an AS in the list of Tony Bates's top-N bad aggregators, results in a message like this:
Dear Prospective User -
You are connecting from [A.A.A.A], an IP address in a netblock [P.P.P.P/M] which should be aggregated by your ISP or one of its upstream providers into a longer prefix. Please see the CIDR Report Project at http://www.employees.org/~tbates/ for an indication of the growth of the global routing table, which is an expensive phenomenon exacerbated by your upstream provider(s).
REWARD REWARD REWARD
If you can convince your upstream provider(s) to aggregate, renumber, or otherwise withdraw [P.P.P.P/M], we will give you FREE XXX hours of FREE access to the streaming porn on this site.
Otherwise, please have your credit-card handy. All proceeds go to the charitable fund for the elimination of long prefixes and the drainage of the routing table swamp, much of which is spent on maintaining this excellent source of adult entertainment.
Now then, to kick-start the project, we need some bandwidth (easy enough), some sort of content distribution network or server farm (also easy), a studio in a convenient legal jurisdiction (straightforward), lighting, technical support, that kind of thing (simple opex). Oh, and models.
Oh Vint, are you busy? We need your sexy strip tease. It's for the good of the Internet, promoting its long-term sustainability and growth.
Other suggestions welcome.
Sean.
participants (4)
-
Alex Bligh -
Eric Sobocinski -
Hank Nussbacher -
smd＠clock.org