Has anyone else received a phone call from a UUnet salesman out of the blue? It appears that he used the Boardwatch magazine, because he quoted me some information out of it about my company. I simply can not believe the egos they have. I will never do business with UUnet, with this or any other company I am with. I use Fiber Network Solutions currently and am very happy with the service. Todd and Kyle are excellent at what they do. The comments that peaked my anger the most were. "Im sure companies as small as yours would b content with someone as small as Fibernet" When I stated to them that their company is one of the most expensive T1 providers, he responded with "Not every company is able to afford the best Internet that can be offered" (implying UUnet is directly that). Any comments or stories that can be shared?
On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, John Golovich wrote:
When I stated to them that their company is one of the most expensive T1 providers, he responded with "Not every company is able to afford the best Internet that can be offered" (implying UUnet is directly that).
Any comments or stories that can be shared?
The implication might have been true (or at least fairly true) 3-4 years ago. I can definitely say from personal experience as a former customer, the quality of their service degraded considerably, the clue level at their NOC went down considerably, and they basically just aren't the company they once were. I can give people specific stories to back all this up...but don't want to waste everyone's time with them here. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jon Lewis <jlewis@fdt.net> | Spammers will be winnuked or Network Administrator | nestea'd...whatever it takes Florida Digital Turnpike | to get the job done. ______http://inorganic5.fdt.net/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key____
At 10:35 AM 10/28/98 -0800, Dan Hollis wrote:
On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, John Golovich wrote:
Has anyone else received a phone call from a UUnet salesman out of the blue?
Yes. They cold call me at least once a month.
Until they close their smurf amplifiers, theyre not even a consideration.
I thought it was TRULY impressive that they cold-called me, even though the company I worked for HAD service from them. :) Funny thing was he didn't believe me. Then he was really annoyed when I indicated that it was entirely possible we wouldn't be staying with them since that was a development location and there were a lot cheaper places to get better service. Of course, management had no immediate plans, but everything is a statistical probability. Cold-callers annoy me. That's enough reason to rule them out for service in my not-so-humble opinion. :) D
No one wants to EVEN hear my horror stories about trying to use US West for bandwidth in New Mexico. 1) Dedicated T1 - Takes >1000ms to get to most sites on the internet, and this has been going on for 7 months. The best i've seen it, is about 200ms. 2) High packet loss. 3) Bad support, no response 4) Refusal to help trace smurf attacks. Responding with 'we dont do that' 'there's nothing that can be done' etc. 1 gw.netmdc.com (207.108.254.129) 1.802 ms 1.701 ms 1.719 ms 2 207.108.242.29 (207.108.242.29) 30.15 ms 20.047 ms 19.33 ms 3 207.108.240.219 (207.108.240.219) 20.304 ms 207.108.240.251 (207.108.240.251) 21.863 ms 35.917 ms 4 206.181.23.45 (206.181.23.45) 898.806 ms 871.499 ms * 5 * dfw2-core1-pt4-0-0.atlas.digex.net (165.117.52.54) 1016.41 ms 1025 ms 6 dfw2-core2-fa9-1-0.atlas.digex.net (165.117.52.102) 1082.72 ms 874.674 ms 726.922 ms 7 lax1-core1-pt8-0-0.atlas.digex.net (165.117.50.25) 890.003 ms 960.496 ms 929.894 ms 8 sjc4-core2-pt5-0-0.atlas.digex.net (165.117.53.74) 968.47 ms 1143.35 ms 1020.44 ms 9 sjc4-core1-fa5-1-0.atlas.digex.net (165.117.244.1) 998.47 ms 1034.6 AND this is from a company that doesnt even carry their own transit. They are just reselling other providers. From talking to the techs at their center, they are pushing all new mexico traffic through the albuquerque pop, which runs 5 T1's. 4 through digex, and 1 through uu. On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, John Golovich wrote:
Has anyone else received a phone call from a UUnet salesman out of the blue? It appears that he used the Boardwatch magazine, because he quoted me some information out of it about my company.
I simply can not believe the egos they have. I will never do business with UUnet, with this or any other company I am with. I use Fiber Network Solutions currently and am very happy with the service. Todd and Kyle are excellent at what they do.
The comments that peaked my anger the most were. "Im sure companies as small as yours would b content with someone as small as Fibernet"
When I stated to them that their company is one of the most expensive T1 providers, he responded with "Not every company is able to afford the best Internet that can be offered" (implying UUnet is directly that).
Any comments or stories that can be shared?
_ __ _____ __ _________ ______________ /_______ ___ ____ /______ John Gonzalez/Net.Engineer __ __ \ __ \ __/_ __ `__ \/ __ /_ ___/ MDC Computers/netMDC! _ / / / `__/ /_ / / / / / / /_/ / / /__ (505)437-7600/fax-437-3052 /_/ /_/\___/\__/ /_/ /_/ /_/\__,_/ \___/ http://www.netmdc.com [---------------------------------------------[system info]-----------] 11:55am up 17 days, 15:24, 3 users, load average: 0.00, 0.01, 0.00
On Wed, Oct 28, 1998 at 12:04:16PM -0700, John Gonzalez/netMDC admin wrote:
No one wants to EVEN hear my horror stories about trying to use US West for bandwidth in New Mexico.
Great! But the thread's about UUNet. :P -- Steve Sobol [sjsobol@nacs.net] Part-time Support Droid [support@nacs.net] NACS Spaminator [abuse@nacs.net] Spotted on a bumper sticker: "Possum. The other white meat."
On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, John Golovich wrote:
Has anyone else received a phone call from a UUnet salesman out of the blue? It appears that he used the Boardwatch magazine, because he quoted me some information out of it about my company.
heh. That sounds like UUNet. When I was at OneWorld, I used to get calls from WC trying to get us to change our LD carrier to them. We told them "uhh. hell no" :) Little did they know that we were dropping UUNet like a rock too :) [stuff cut]
The comments that peaked my anger the most were. "Im sure companies as small as yours would b content with someone as small as Fibernet"
hrm. Who was your sales person? You should talk to his boss and ream him for sales person's manners.
When I stated to them that their company is one of the most expensive T1 providers, he responded with "Not every company is able to afford the best Internet that can be offered" (implying UUnet is directly that).
heh. I had both our sales rep and the technical leads on the phone after we had escalated what I considered a minor problem. When I was at OneWorld, we were using 8 /24's that we weren't supposed to. Some belonged to Global Center (who OWS, previously GlobalVillage owned) and some to other providers. UUNet was happily redistributing our BGP announcements for these /24's through their network. This is, of course, a Bad Thing(tm). So, I contacted UUNet and told them "We are currently using 8 Class C's we are not allowed to be using." and requested "5 Class C's to completely replace the IP allocation" that we had. Within a day I got a reply from them rejecting our request because OWS wasn't using at least 90% of the current allocation. I personally thought UUNet was on crack. I replied "what are you talking about? We're trying to replace what we have now completely". In the original email I had even sent them the IPs we weren't supposed to use so they knew what we had. Two weeks later, we discovered what happened. It seems that according to UUNet records, we already had a /21 allocated to us. However, their idiotic tech couldn't graps the fact that we were "One World" and the account said "One World" but the allocation information on the /21 said Primenet even though it was attached to our account. I had a field day over this. As it is I ended up purchasing a T1 from Best Internet to replace the UUNet line and told UUNet the reasons for the termination. Mel Melody Lynn Yoon melodyy+KF6RMW@best.com | Graduate - '97 MSF Consultant - Collective Technologies | NRA Member - I do not accept commercial, unsolicited email | kf6rmw@w6yx.#nca.ca.usa.noam - http://www.best.com/~melodyy/spam.policy.html | KF6RMW - Amateur Radio
---Reply on mail from John Golovich about UU Net sales tactics?
Has anyone else received a phone call from a UUnet salesman out of the blue? It appears that he used the Boardwatch magazine, because he quoted me some information out of it about my company.
Yup, and he was VERY demanding in his statements about how they have the *BEST* network compared to anyone else, and how they offer better service, and the price difference isnt an issue :)
I simply can not believe the egos they have. I will never do business with UUnet, with this or any other company I am with. I use Fiber Network Solutions currently and am very happy with the service. Todd and Kyle are excellent at what they do.
We arent a network provider so how they got our name (other than via internic/arin perhaps ...) is a bit of a mystery (ie we wouldnt have been in boardwatch for any reason)
The comments that peaked my anger the most were. "Im sure companies as small as yours would b content with someone as small as Fibernet"
When I stated to them that their company is one of the most expensive T1 providers, he responded with "Not every company is able to afford the best Internet that can be offered" (implying UUnet is directly that).
He told me that I had my facts wrong, and that he would send me some information to 'show me the light' or whatever, I told him not to, and they did anyway.. the UUNET rep got a bit upset when I askedl em why a T3 is like 48,000 and a OC3 is 178,000 (more than 3x, which means no 'bulk discount' etc) He also gets upset when you mention OC48 and how other people have made public statements of their intention to upgrade to that (sprint, bbn, psi all have) and they havent made any such statement (at least not as publicly).. -- Bret McDanel http://www.rehost.com Realistic Technologies, Inc. 973-514-1144 These opinions are mine, and may not be the same as my employer
Actually, I called UUNet today, and the sales guy was actually pretty cool. Specifically said that UUNet would probably be out of the price range we were considering, and that I could probably get a better deal somewhere else. On top of that, he still gave me the information that I called to get in the first place. They are a little pushy about the "We are the best" thing, though. At 03:58 PM 10/28/98 -0500, you wrote:
---Reply on mail from John Golovich about UU Net sales tactics?
Has anyone else received a phone call from a UUnet salesman out of the blue? It appears that he used the Boardwatch magazine, because he quoted me some information out of it about my company.
Yup, and he was VERY demanding in his statements about how they have the *BEST* network compared to anyone else, and how they offer better service, and the price difference isnt an issue :)
I simply can not believe the egos they have. I will never do business with UUnet, with this or any other company I am with. I use Fiber Network Solutions currently and am very happy with the service. Todd and Kyle are excellent at what they do.
We arent a network provider so how they got our name (other than via internic/arin perhaps ...) is a bit of a mystery (ie we wouldnt have been in boardwatch for any reason)
The comments that peaked my anger the most were. "Im sure companies as small as yours would b content with someone as small as Fibernet"
When I stated to them that their company is one of the most expensive T1 providers, he responded with "Not every company is able to afford the best Internet that can be offered" (implying UUnet is directly that).
He told me that I had my facts wrong, and that he would send me some information to 'show me the light' or whatever, I told him not to, and they did anyway..
the UUNET rep got a bit upset when I askedl em why a T3 is like 48,000 and a OC3 is 178,000 (more than 3x, which means no 'bulk discount' etc) He also gets upset when you mention OC48 and how other people have made public statements of their intention to upgrade to that (sprint, bbn, psi all have) and they havent made any such statement (at least not as publicly)..
-- Bret McDanel http://www.rehost.com Realistic Technologies, Inc. 973-514-1144
These opinions are mine, and may not be the same as my employer
Actually, we have been pretty happy with UUNet. The technical people seem quite competent and their network is reliable and adequately provisioned. Of course, YMMV. Personally, I think most salespeople are worthless. What I want out of a salesperson is an order taker and someone to send me information I request. I don't want high pressure sales or making up facts. Our own salespeople do this and it annoys me to no end, and I am sure that some of our potential customers feel the same way and go elsewhere. I have been known to go out of my way to avoid buying from a pushy salesperson, but in general I don't hold it against the company if they have a decent product. John Tamplin Traveller Information Services jat@Traveller.COM 2104 West Ferry Way 256/705-7007 - FAX 256/705-7100 Huntsville, AL 35801
Last month they were selling full DS3 for 25k/month. Beat'em up. On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, William S. Duncanson wrote:
Actually, I called UUNet today, and the sales guy was actually pretty cool. Specifically said that UUNet would probably be out of the price range we were considering, and that I could probably get a better deal somewhere else.
On top of that, he still gave me the information that I called to get in the first place.
They are a little pushy about the "We are the best" thing, though.
At 03:58 PM 10/28/98 -0500, you wrote:
---Reply on mail from John Golovich about UU Net sales tactics?
Has anyone else received a phone call from a UUnet salesman out of the blue? It appears that he used the Boardwatch magazine, because he quoted me some information out of it about my company.
Yup, and he was VERY demanding in his statements about how they have the *BEST* network compared to anyone else, and how they offer better service, and the price difference isnt an issue :)
I simply can not believe the egos they have. I will never do business with UUnet, with this or any other company I am with. I use Fiber Network Solutions currently and am very happy with the service. Todd and Kyle are excellent at what they do.
We arent a network provider so how they got our name (other than via internic/arin perhaps ...) is a bit of a mystery (ie we wouldnt have been in boardwatch for any reason)
The comments that peaked my anger the most were. "Im sure companies as small as yours would b content with someone as small as Fibernet"
When I stated to them that their company is one of the most expensive T1 providers, he responded with "Not every company is able to afford the best Internet that can be offered" (implying UUnet is directly that).
He told me that I had my facts wrong, and that he would send me some information to 'show me the light' or whatever, I told him not to, and they did anyway..
the UUNET rep got a bit upset when I askedl em why a T3 is like 48,000 and a OC3 is 178,000 (more than 3x, which means no 'bulk discount' etc) He also gets upset when you mention OC48 and how other people have made public statements of their intention to upgrade to that (sprint, bbn, psi all have) and they havent made any such statement (at least not as publicly)..
-- Bret McDanel http://www.rehost.com Realistic Technologies, Inc. 973-514-1144
These opinions are mine, and may not be the same as my employer
-- Jason Weisberger Chief Technology Officer SoftAware, Inc. 310/305-0275
On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Bret McDanel wrote:
---Reply on mail from John Golovich about UU Net sales tactics?
Has anyone else received a phone call from a UUnet salesman out of the blue? It appears that he used the Boardwatch magazine, because he quoted me some information out of it about my company. Yup, and he was VERY demanding in his statements about how they have the *BEST* network compared to anyone else, and how they offer better service, and the price difference isnt an issue :)
The UUnet rep who called me was also insistent that UUnet had the best technical support in the industry. I indicated to him that I had dealt with UUnet tech support in the past and was _not_ impressed[1], and was met with about 30 seconds of stunned silence. B) -Dan [1] The industry as a whole seems to have horrible tech support though. Without exception, _every single NOC I have dealt with_ has been _pathetic_. Especially on critical issues like denial of service attacks.
On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, John Golovich wrote:
Has anyone else received a phone call from a UUnet salesman out of the blue? It appears that he used the Boardwatch magazine, because he quoted me some information out of it about my company.
Funny you should mention this. I have a 45MB/s feed to UUNet in Dallas, and have had for years. Probably a year ago I had a UUNet salesman call me out of the blue saying he was now responsible for my account, and I should be talking to him for all of my UUNet related business. However, according to WorldCom, and more specifically my WorldCom sales rep, I was still supposed to go through WorldCom for my UUNet dealings. Can you say comi$$ion? About two months back, I got a flyer from UUNet, with a new person claiming to be my sales rep. Again, the WorldCom rep I have states she should be our primary contact for UUNet business. Personally, I think the UUNet feed I have is excellent, but it would be nice to see a bit more UUNet-WorldCom coordination. It's leaving those of us in the customer community confused. Louis -- Louis A. Destree Senior Network Engineer FlashNet Communications destree@flash.net
In the immortal words of John Golovich (john@ciag.net):
Has anyone else received a phone call from a UUnet salesman out of the blue?
"Yes, Frequently."
The comments that peaked my anger the most were. "Im sure companies as small as yours would b content with someone as small as Fibernet"
If a salesperson cold-calling you has the poor sense to be rude or insulting, there are two effective tactics: 1. Hang up. 2. Ask to speak to their manager. -n ------------------------------------------------------------<memory@blank.org> "...the irony of this development constitutes an enigma wrapped in a paradox bound up in a colostomy bag." (--www.suck.com) <http://www.blank.org/memory/>------------------------------------------------
participants (13)
-
Bret McDanel -
Dan Hollis -
Derek Balling -
Jason Weisberger -
John A. Tamplin -
John Gonzalez/netMDC admin -
john＠ciag.net -
Jon Lewis -
Louis A. Destree -
Melody Yoon - KF6RMW -
Nathan J. Mehl -
Steven J. Sobol -
William S. Duncanson