Re: what will all you who work for private isp's be doing in a few years?
Alexei Roudnev wrote:
What I can't understand is why multicast hasn't just gone gangbusters into use yet. I see it as a really pent-up capability that, in light of Because multicast standards was written by academic idiots. -:) Very difficult to use and full of unused features.
(Do not believe? Read RSVP protocol - not exactly multicast but not far away from it).
And because multicast protocols (unfortunately) are not easy to implement. It excuse this standards and their authors.
I can predict one more 'skype' like company, with really robust protocol, catching multicast market. Something like 'peer to peer multicast' -:).
Don't be too quick to assess the usage and value of multicast in last mile access networks, where it has found far greater success than over the Internet proper across the WAN. IP- and ATM- based multicast has worked very well for the past five years in telco VDSL (check out Next Level's implementations during the late nineties), and now in all manner of xDSL implementations, as well as a number of cable operator service applications in the digital region of their spectrum, for program video delivery to homes. Check it out. http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/cc/so/neso/dsso/global/madsl_wp.htm Frank A. Coluccio DTI Consulting Inc. On Fri May 13 2:29 , "Alexei Roudnev" sent:
So imagine a residential area all pulling digital video over wireless. Sound familiar? Ironically close to TV! (yet so different)
What I can't understand is why multicast hasn't just gone gangbusters into use yet. I see it as a really pent-up capability that, in light of
Because multicast standards was written by academic idiots. -:) Very difficult to use and full of unused features.
(Do not believe? Read RSVP protocol - not exactly multicast but not far away from it).
And because multicast protocols (unfortunately) are not easy to implement. It excuse this standards and their authors.
I can predict one more 'skype' like company, with really robust protocol, catching multicast market. Something like 'peer to peer multicast' -:).
broadband video, etc., is just going to have to break wide open soon.
Joe
Ross Hosman
sjsobol@JustThe.net>, Fred Heutte aoxomoxoa@sunlightdata.com>
@yahoo.com> cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent by: Subject: Re: what will all
you who work for private isp's be doing in a few years?
owner-nanog
05/12/2005 02:16 PM
Not pointing any fingers but many of you think these small ISP's are just going to die off instead of adapt. Wireless is becoming a better and more reliable technology that in the future will be able to provide faster service then FTTH. I know of atleast one small ISP in Michigan that went from dial-up to deploying wireless. With WiMAX coming out I think you will see a number of smaller ISPs switching to it as a service. It is also much cheaper to deploy a wireless network.
Me personally, I think wireless is the future for residential internet/tv/phone.
Ross Hosman Charter Communcations
--- Steve Sobol sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:
Fred Heutte wrote:
(1) There will be a market for independent ISPs as long CLECs
I think a more appropriate term would be ALEC
(anti-competitive local exchange carrier)
...That having been said, the problem with the small guys providing access is they can't generally achieve the economies of scale that allow them to compete with the big guys.
I'm on a Charter cablemodem, 3mbps down x 256kbps up, $39.95/month. Verizon is building out FTTH in this area and they're going to be offering 5x2 for $39.95 or 10x5 for $49.95, IIRC. Those are all residential prices, but Charter's actually pretty competitive on business rates too.
And yes, there are people who value service over price, but the price differential is only going to get worse.
-- JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638) Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / sjsobol@JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
"The wisdom of a fool won't set you free" --New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle"
Last mile usage? May be, but it is not supported by many consumer level firewalls/NAT's/DSL devices, cheap switches and so on. I agree, it is most likely usage for it (multicast) - last mile and 'last patch' -:). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Coluccio" <frank@dticonsulting.com> To: "'Ross Hosman'" <rosshosman@yahoo.com>; "'Joe Loiacono'" <jloiacon@csc.com>; "'Alexei Roudnev'" <alex@relcom.net> Cc: <nanog@nanog.org>; <owner-nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 5:41 AM Subject: Re: what will all you who work for private isp's be doing in a few years? Alexei Roudnev wrote:
What I can't understand is why multicast hasn't just gone gangbusters into use yet. I see it as a really pent-up capability that, in light of Because multicast standards was written by academic idiots. -:) Very difficult to use and full of unused features.
(Do not believe? Read RSVP protocol - not exactly multicast but not far away from it).
And because multicast protocols (unfortunately) are not easy to implement. It excuse this standards and their authors.
I can predict one more 'skype' like company, with really robust protocol, catching multicast market. Something like 'peer to peer multicast' -:).
Don't be too quick to assess the usage and value of multicast in last mile access networks, where it has found far greater success than over the Internet proper across the WAN. IP- and ATM- based multicast has worked very well for the past five years in telco VDSL (check out Next Level's implementations during the late nineties), and now in all manner of xDSL implementations, as well as a number of cable operator service applications in the digital region of their spectrum, for program video delivery to homes. Check it out. http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/cc/so/neso/dsso/global/madsl_wp.htm Frank A. Coluccio DTI Consulting Inc. On Fri May 13 2:29 , "Alexei Roudnev" sent:
So imagine a residential area all pulling digital video over wireless. Sound familiar? Ironically close to TV! (yet so different)
What I can't understand is why multicast hasn't just gone gangbusters
into
use yet. I see it as a really pent-up capability that, in light of Because multicast standards was written by academic idiots. -:) Very difficult to use and full of unused features.
(Do not believe? Read RSVP protocol - not exactly multicast but not far away from it).
And because multicast protocols (unfortunately) are not easy to implement. It excuse this standards and their authors.
I can predict one more 'skype' like company, with really robust protocol, catching multicast market. Something like 'peer to peer multicast' -:).
broadband video, etc., is just going to have to break wide open soon.
Joe
Ross Hosman
sjsobol@JustThe.net>, Fred Heutte aoxomoxoa@sunlightdata.com>
@yahoo.com> cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent by: Subject: Re: what will all
you who work for private isp's be doing in a few years?
owner-nanog
05/12/2005 02:16 PM
Not pointing any fingers but many of you think these small ISP's are just going to die off instead of adapt. Wireless is becoming a better and more reliable technology that in the future will be able to provide faster service then FTTH. I know of atleast one small ISP in Michigan that went from dial-up to deploying wireless. With WiMAX coming out I think you will see a number of smaller ISPs switching to it as a service. It is also much cheaper to deploy a wireless network.
Me personally, I think wireless is the future for residential internet/tv/phone.
Ross Hosman Charter Communcations
--- Steve Sobol sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:
Fred Heutte wrote:
(1) There will be a market for independent ISPs as long CLECs
I think a more appropriate term would be ALEC
(anti-competitive local exchange carrier)
...That having been said, the problem with the small guys providing access is they can't generally achieve the economies of scale that allow them to compete with the big guys.
I'm on a Charter cablemodem, 3mbps down x 256kbps up, $39.95/month. Verizon is building out FTTH in this area and they're going to be offering 5x2 for $39.95 or 10x5 for $49.95, IIRC. Those are all residential prices, but Charter's actually pretty competitive on business rates too.
And yes, there are people who value service over price, but the price differential is only going to get worse.
-- JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638) Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / sjsobol@JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
"The wisdom of a fool won't set you free" --New Order, "Bizarre Love Triangle"
participants (2)
-
Alexei Roudnev -
Frank Coluccio