On Monday, May 12, 1997 6:53 PM, Deepak Jain [SMTP:deepak@jain.com] wrote:

Strikes me that the terms "diversely routed" and "geographically diverse" can be interpretted wildly.

For most networks, I don't see a real problem dropping a couple extra pairs of DS3s (assuming they were only at two NAPs to begin with).

There is if you do not have any "domestic" US customers. See below.

If UUNet requires a DS3 interconnect at LINX, MaeWest, MaeEast and say (for giggles) Australia -- AND a diversely routed DS3 backbone in the U.S. that takes on an entirely different meaning than the above.

transit< services and have come to an arrangement with PSI - for those who may try traceroutes - but until the Concert merger is final, MCI is *not* seen as a competitor - and PSI we can deal with, since we are all nice

... Cool. I can do the LINX. :) Only problem here for me is that (miles * BPS) is a formula that does not work. My company has a very large customer base in the UK and is a direct competitor of UUNET PIPEX. Big deal you say ? Networks who are competitors always interconnect in the US you say ? This doesn't work in the big picture for us, sitting and the end of a very expensive international T3 line and only competing in one market area. (BTW We have not actually ever requested peering from UUNET outside of the AS1849 seen at the LINX - so this is all hypothetical and I am using UUNETs policy as an example of why some of these do not make sense in a global scene - yes I also know this is NANOG) Watch my hands on this one, and I will try to go slowly. Scenario (a) - Demon Internet install a trans-US DS3 backbone, all centred around New York, since this is where all our traffic flows throw. We have no US customers, so the network is wasted, and the DS3's get used as unidirectional pipes to the various NAPs. Anyone wanna share this network ? Scenario (b) - Demon Internet "pay" a direct competitor in their own market for transit. I hope I do not even have to spell out the wonderful sales calls our customers and prospects would get ? (BTW We *pay* MCI for people). Scenario (c) - Demon Internet approach a number of large NSPs in the US asking about customer-network peering only (not transit) at some mutually agreed single point - sharing the actual costs of delivery. In the US of course. Scenario (d) - Demon Internet approach same people as in (c) but for two points, one in our territory - the UK. This means the US NSP has an international backbone to worry about. Guess which one I like ? But I will settle for (c). (Oh (d) for those who didn't guess). Anyone out there who want to *peer* with us in Scenarios (c) or (d) who does not already do so, please let me know in private e-mail. Anyhow, the point I am trying to make is that it is very much pointless for companies like us to build a backbone when I do not have customers to use it, and also that paying a company in the US for services, when we have an "aggressive" competitive relationship in our own market is a non-starter. Regards, -- Peter Galbavy Demon Internet Ltd http://www.demon.net/