-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 All, Gadi Evron, Randy Vaughn and myself have initiated an "outages" mailing list. The primary goal of this mailing list ("outages") is to report major outages similar to what FCC provided prior to 9/11 days but they seem to have pulled back due to terrorism concerns. Some also believe that LEC's and IXC's also like this model as they no longer have to air their dirty laundry. Then again, this mailing list is not about making anyone look bad, its all about information sharing and keeping network operators & end users abreast on the situation as close to real-time information as possible in order to assess and respond to major outage such as routing voice/data via different carriers which may directly or indirectly impact us and our customers. The purpose of this list is to have a central place to lookup and report so that end users & network operators know why their services (e-mail, phones, etc) went down eliminating the need to open tons of trouble tickets during a major event. One master ticket - such as fiber cut affect xxx OC48's would suffice. We hope this would empower users and network operators to post such events so that everyone could benefit from it. In a brief poll, I've gotten some good feedback from nanog community and there are some who are also willing to assist with this cause. You know who you are :-) Currently the mailing list is not vetted nor moderated as we would like everyone to benefit from such reports unless you strongly feel that we should vett, which we are willing to listen and discuss. We like to encourage people to participate and help with the process and yes, we need your support! Not sure how this can be balanced against DHS (department of homeland security) perceived needs. We look forward to your feedback and suggestions. Outages mailing is now accepting members. http://isotf.org/mailman/listinfo/outages regards, Gadi Evron Randy Vaughn Virendra Rode -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFG//6pbZvCIJx1bcRAnGGAJwO/8mk297IcTsEaBSl6k8UQ2RcmACfbjBj KHmJX/zmRQoYTzr+5y6WUvE= =ixbS -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006, virendra rode // wrote:
Gadi Evron, Randy Vaughn and myself have initiated an "outages" mailing list.
The primary goal of this mailing list ("outages") is to report major outages similar to what FCC provided prior to 9/11 days but they seem to
be sure to subscribe Sean Donelan :) he generally, for some odd reason, knows about more outages than any other human I've ever seen.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Chris L. Morrow wrote:
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006, virendra rode // wrote:
Gadi Evron, Randy Vaughn and myself have initiated an "outages" mailing list.
The primary goal of this mailing list ("outages") is to report major outages similar to what FCC provided prior to 9/11 days but they seem to
be sure to subscribe Sean Donelan :) he generally, for some odd reason, knows about more outages than any other human I've ever seen.
I agree. I believe Sean Donelan is already a member :-) regards, /virendra -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFHAMppbZvCIJx1bcRAs8/AJ9u/dCptmVxCuXRNgLJAkImG2eZbACeM4JY 7/RNCeRZmM52GrqwyrvOcDA= =B5x+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Don't forget to CC all the traffic to NANOG list. Major outages have always been an important part of NANOG list traffic going back to the days when we were network techs, and are one main reason that I'm a subscriber here. I have no intention of joining "yet another list" for the same information.
William Allen Simpson wrote:
Don't forget to CC all the traffic to NANOG list.
Please don't do that. We don't need more pontification from Gadi. This new separate list sounds like a great idea, if only because it will distract him from NANOG-L. I don't post much but I read NANOG-L for the operational content, and the off-topic posts generated by Gadi and his supporters/detractors significantly reduce the SNR. I've been sending him private emails asking him to stop polluting NANOG-L for some time, but those emails have had no effect, nor have the numerous public requests posted to the list by others. Hoping that another list will entice him away seems to be our only hope, and forwarding that list here would defeat the purpose.
* from_nanog@corenap.com (Albert Meyer) [Thu 28 Sep 2006, 21:47 CEST]:
William Allen Simpson wrote:
Don't forget to CC all the traffic to NANOG list. Please don't do that. We don't need more pontification from Gadi. This new separate list sounds like a great idea, if only because it will distract him from NANOG-L. I don't post much but I read NANOG-L for the operational content, and the off-topic posts generated by Gadi and his supporters/detractors significantly reduce the SNR. I've been sending him private emails asking him to stop polluting NANOG-L for some time, but those emails have had no effect, nor have the numerous public requests posted to the list by others. Hoping that another list will entice him away seems to be our only hope, and forwarding that list here would defeat the purpose.
Gadi's tactics in a nutshell: 1) develop a long-term habit of posting off-topic stuff to nanog 2) get called on it repeatedly 3) challenge what's supposed to be "on-topic" for the mailing list anyway 4) start a new mailing list in an attempt to take real content away from nanog 5) ??? 6) profit! Don't fall for it, people. -- Niels.
On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 01:32:35 +0200, Niels Bakker said:
Gadi's tactics in a nutshell:
1) develop a long-term habit of posting off-topic stuff to nanog 2) get called on it repeatedly
OK, for the purposes of this discussion, we'll postulate that in fact, the posting was indeed off-topic...
3) challenge what's supposed to be "on-topic" for the mailing list anyway 4) start a new mailing list in an attempt to take real content away from nanog
But if he takes the supposedly off-topic stuff away, what "real" content is he taking away? You can't have it both ways. If it's sufficiently "real" that you're concerned about it being taken to a different list, you shouldn't have labelled it off-topic earlier.
Don't fall for it, people.
Don't fall for what?
Presumably, if you find you can't reach the outages list because their listserv has had an outage, you just come up on NANOG like before? On 9/29/06, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu <Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu> wrote:
On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 01:32:35 +0200, Niels Bakker said:
Gadi's tactics in a nutshell:
1) develop a long-term habit of posting off-topic stuff to nanog 2) get called on it repeatedly
OK, for the purposes of this discussion, we'll postulate that in fact, the posting was indeed off-topic...
3) challenge what's supposed to be "on-topic" for the mailing list anyway 4) start a new mailing list in an attempt to take real content away from nanog
But if he takes the supposedly off-topic stuff away, what "real" content is he taking away? You can't have it both ways. If it's sufficiently "real" that you're concerned about it being taken to a different list, you shouldn't have labelled it off-topic earlier.
Don't fall for it, people.
Don't fall for what?
Alexander Harrowell wrote:
Presumably, if you find you can't reach the outages list because their listserv has had an outage, you just come up on NANOG like before?
Please, let's not do this one again. I can't imagine what this profits anyone. Let this be the last post, resist the temptation to put in your two cents worth, and just let it be. -- Creating consternation around boundary conditions and then proposing artificial self-serving "compromises" is one of the oldest games there is on mailing lists, going back pretty much to the invention of Usenet.
if folk need to discuss more gadiisms as opposed to ops stuff, any chance it could move to -futures? randy
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 All, Niels Bakker wrote:
* from_nanog@corenap.com (Albert Meyer) [Thu 28 Sep 2006, 21:47 CEST]:
Don't forget to CC all the traffic to NANOG list. Please don't do that. We don't need more pontification from Gadi. This new separate list sounds like a great idea, if only because it will distract him from NANOG-L. I don't post much but I read NANOG-L for
William Allen Simpson wrote: the operational content, and the off-topic posts generated by Gadi and his supporters/detractors significantly reduce the SNR. I've been sending him private emails asking him to stop polluting NANOG-L for some time, but those emails have had no effect, nor have the numerous public requests posted to the list by others. Hoping that another list will entice him away seems to be our only hope, and forwarding that list here would defeat the purpose.
Gadi's tactics in a nutshell:
1) develop a long-term habit of posting off-topic stuff to nanog 2) get called on it repeatedly 3) challenge what's supposed to be "on-topic" for the mailing list anyway 4) start a new mailing list in an attempt to take real content away from nanog 5) ??? 6) profit!
Don't fall for it, people.
-- Niels.
- --------------------------------- I apologize if I wasn't clear in my original e-mail. The outages mailing list is being run by me (virendra rode) with the only motive to help the network operator community. Gadi & Randy were nice enough to offer help w/ bandwidth and hosting this mailing list. I would really appreciate if folks can show some professionalism & keep their personal (non-operational) attacks off list. You are not being productive nor helping with the process. Email me directly and I will assist in resolving your questions and concerns. As far as the outages mailing list goes, this list will remain general Internet backbone style outage-centric mailing list and I welcome constructive criticism. Ideally (if I have better luck) I would like to get providers to direct outage notices to this list. All that really matters is that we have a central pace where network operators (nanog, sanog, isp-routing, cisco-nsp, etc) can post notice (backbone-types) of problems so that people are aware of them and can offer an informed answer. I would really appreciate everyones co-operation. Thanks for listening. regards, /virendra -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFHUEdpbZvCIJx1bcRAnvMAKDRt9+eU4wBUvXGaEvorMWDNBJgtgCg1iaj nZZuud0MBS8wcVS7fyXThko= =4v3n -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
participants (9)
-
Albert Meyer -
Alexander Harrowell -
Chris L. Morrow -
Etaoin Shrdlu -
Niels Bakker -
Randy Bush -
Valdis.Kletnieks＠vt.edu -
virendra rode // -
William Allen Simpson