From: Avi Freedman <freedman@netaxs.com> And they solicit our customers, sigh.
And someone with 2 T1s to Sprint has been saying "We are *the* Internet Backbone in South Jersey".
Everyone (of importance) agrees that in order to claim you're a backbone you have to (now, not a year ago) be connected to at least 2 public NAPs/MAEs and have at least one circuit that runs at DS3 or higher speed.
No, that is not correct. A US Internet "backbone" is one which connects to ALL the NAP/MAEs in the US. Not just two. All of them. Everyone else is just a "regional", of one size or another. If anyone solicits your customers saying otherwise, report them for false advertising to the FTC, and sue the bastards. WSimpson@UMich.edu Key fingerprint = 17 40 5E 67 15 6F 31 26 DD 0D B9 9B 6A 15 2C 32 BSimpson@MorningStar.com Key fingerprint = 2E 07 23 03 C5 62 70 D3 59 B1 4F 5E 1D C2 C1 A2
Bill sez: A US Internet "backbone" is one which connects to ALL the NAP/MAEs in the US. Not just two. All of them. ===== Bill: what backbone would that be? I am unaware that there is any single backbone that meets those criteria. Is your point that there is no single US internet backbone? if so, why not just say so? ********************************************************************* Gordon Cook, Editor & Publisher Subscriptions: Individ-ascii $85 The COOK Report on Internet Individ. hard copy $150 431 Greenway Ave, Ewing, NJ 08618 USA Small Corp & Gov't $200 (609) 882-2572 Corporate $350 Internet: cook@cookreport.com Corporate Site Lic. $650 http://pobox.com/cook/ for new COOK Report Glossary of Internet terms *********************************************************************
On Fri, 5 Apr 1996, Gordon Cook wrote:
Bill sez: A US Internet "backbone" is one which connects to ALL the NAP/MAEs in the US. Not just two. All of them.
Why not just start calling it the Internet "core". The core of the US Internet no longer follows a backbone topology. The core is composed of the major NSP's who operate national backbones providing national transit and who interconnect at all or most of the public exchange points. Make sense? Michael Dillon Voice: +1-604-546-8022 Memra Software Inc. Fax: +1-604-546-3049 http://www.memra.com E-mail: michael@memra.com
A US Internet "backbone" is one which connects to ALL the NAP/MAEs in the US. Not just two. All of them.
The term is a matter of definition which is (frequently) a function of usage. Although your description would seem to make the most sense, it is not the generally accepted notion that exists for the term today. mb
From: Avi Freedman <freedman@netaxs.com> And they solicit our customers, sigh.
And someone with 2 T1s to Sprint has been saying "We are *the* Internet Backbone in South Jersey".
Everyone (of importance) agrees that in order to claim you're a backbone you have to (now, not a year ago) be connected to at least 2 public NAPs/MAEs and have at least one circuit that runs at DS3 or higher speed.
No, that is not correct.
A US Internet "backbone" is one which connects to ALL the NAP/MAEs in the US. Not just two. All of them.
Perhaps you can tell me where PSI connects, good sir... By my count it's MAE-East and CIX and nowhere else. There are a few major backbones not at the Chicago NAP. And none of the majors are at MAE-Chicago or any of the MAEs other than East and West.
Everyone else is just a "regional", of one size or another.
If anyone solicits your customers saying otherwise, report them for false advertising to the FTC, and sue the bastards.
WSimpson@UMich.edu
Avi
On Fri, 5 Apr 1996, Avi Freedman wrote:
Perhaps you can tell me where PSI connects, good sir... By my count it's MAE-East and CIX and nowhere else. [snip]
While I agree with the point Avi was trying to make I thought I might point out the little tidbit below: traceroute to www.psi.net (38.8.64.2), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets [snip] 7 Hssi3/0.San-Jose6.CA.Alter.Net (137.39.100.1) 142.59 ms 72.272 ms 88.32 ms 8 mae-west.psi.com (198.32.136.23) 145.853 ms 145.555 ms 136.282 ms 9 core.net99.psi.net (38.1.2.10) 208.164 ms 180.217 ms 140.287 ms 10 www2.psi.net (38.8.64.2) 208.077 ms 154.819 ms 220.8 ms What are the odds that "mae-west.psi.com" is actually a PSI router at MAE-west? Christopher E Stefan http://www.ironhorse.com/~flatline System Administrator Home: (206) 706-0945 Ironhorse Software, Inc. Work: (206) 783-6636 flatline@ironhorse.com finger for PGP key
On Fri, 5 Apr 1996, Avi Freedman wrote:
Perhaps you can tell me where PSI connects, good sir... By my count it's MAE-East and CIX and nowhere else. [snip]
While I agree with the point Avi was trying to make I thought I might point out the little tidbit below: traceroute to www.psi.net (38.8.64.2), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets [snip] <snip> 8 mae-west.psi.com (198.32.136.23) 145.853 ms 145.555 ms 136.282 ms 9 core.net99.psi.net (38.1.2.10) 208.164 ms 180.217 ms 140.287 ms 10 www2.psi.net (38.8.64.2) 208.077 ms 154.819 ms 220.8 ms
What are the odds that "mae-west.psi.com" is actually a PSI router at MAE-west?
Christopher E Stefan
I & others (I'm sure) are happy to hear that PSI is increasing their connectivity. Avi
It is not symmetrical. 64 bytes from 38.1.2.10: icmp_seq=1 ttl=249 time=273 ms RR: ------------------------- Fddi0/0.San-Jose6.CA.Alter.Net (137.39.27.12) san-jose3.ca.alter.net (198.32.136.42) 38.1.2.16 core.net99.psi.net (38.1.2.10) core.net99.psi.net (38.1.2.10) Fddi0/0.Vienna1.VA.Alter.Net (137.39.11.1) Hssi2/0.Vienna6.VA.Alter.Net (137.39.100.78)
From Alternet to PSI is via MAE-WEST but not vice versa.
Here's the traceroute. Note the large jump in response time at the CIX which confirms the above traceroute to www.psi.net (38.8.8.2), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 3 Fddi0/0.San-Jose3.CA.Alter.Net (137.39.27.1) 8 ms 9 ms 8 ms 4 mae-west.psi.com (198.32.136.23) 13 ms 13 ms 12 ms 5 38.1.2.14 (38.1.2.14) 86 ms 90 ms 89 ms 6 www.psi.net (38.8.8.2) 91 ms 89 ms 88 ms
Perhaps you can tell me where PSI connects, good sir... By my count it's MAE-East and CIX and nowhere else. There are a few major backbones not at the Chicago NAP. And none of the majors are at MAE-Chicago or any of the MAEs other than East and West.
PSINet connects to MAE-west, MAE-East, MAE-East+, CIX, and the SWAB (little known SMDS Washington (DC) Area Bypass). mf
Perhaps you can tell me where PSI connects, good sir... By my count it's MAE-East and CIX and nowhere else. There are a few major backbones not at the Chicago NAP. And none of the majors are at MAE-Chicago or any of the MAEs other than East and West.
PSINet connects to MAE-west, MAE-East, MAE-East+, CIX, and the SWAB (little known SMDS Washington (DC) Area Bypass).
mf
Thanks for the info. For a long time, the claim had been that PSI was not connected to MAE-West. Any plans for Pennsauken? Avi
Everyone (of importance) agrees that in order to claim you're a backbone you have to (now, not a year ago) be connected to at least 2 public NAPs/MAEs and have at least one circuit that runs at DS3 or higher speed.
No, that is not correct. A US Internet "backbone" is one which connects to ALL the NAP/MAEs in the US. Not just two. All of them. Everyone else is just a "regional", of one size or another.
Name any ISP which meets that critiera. [Hint: who is at MAE-Chicago right now?] Once you start doing BGP peering at T3 speeds in two geographically distinct regions, you're playing in big leagues. There is a tier below that of BGP peering at one location; there is the tier above it of peering at *lots* of places rather than just a few, but IMHO once you have the multiple peering points you can call yourself a backbone or core provider, and I'll gladly testify to that in a deposition or in court if you start going around suing people who use it. -george william herbert gherbert@crl.com
participants (9)
-
Avi Freedman -
boolooï¼ cats.ucsc.edu -
Christopher E. Stefan -
George Herbert -
Gordon Cook -
Mark S. Fedor -
Michael Dillon -
Roy -
William Allen Simpson