Virtual or Remote Peering
How well does this service work? I understand it usually involves point-to-multipoint Switched Ethernet with VLANs and resold IX ports. Sounds like a service for ISP that would like to peer, but have relatively small volumes for peering purposes or lopsided volumes. Roderick Beck Director of Global Sales United Cable Company DRG Undersea Consulting Affiliate Member www.unitedcablecompany.com<http://www.unitedcablecompany.com> 85 Király utca, 1077 Budapest rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com 36-30-859-5144 [1467221477350_image005.png]
How well does this service work? I understand it usually involves point-to-multipoint Switched Ethernet with VLANs and resold IX ports. Sounds like a service for ISP that would like to peer, but have relatively small volumes for peering purposes or lopsided volumes.
Roderick Beck
Director of Global Sales
United Cable Company
DRG Undersea Consulting
Affiliate Member
www.unitedcablecompany.com<http://www.unitedcablecompany.com>
85 Király utca, 1077 Budapest
rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com
36-30-859-5144
[1467221477350_image005.png]
Its like buying regular ip-transit, but worse. -- hugge
That seems to be a rather lopsided opinion. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fredrik Korsbäck" <hugge@nordu.net> To: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 10:00:39 AM Subject: Re: Virtual or Remote Peering
How well does this service work? I understand it usually involves point-to-multipoint Switched Ethernet with VLANs and resold IX ports. Sounds like a service for ISP that would like to peer, but have relatively small volumes for peering purposes or lopsided volumes.
Roderick Beck
Director of Global Sales
United Cable Company
DRG Undersea Consulting
Affiliate Member
www.unitedcablecompany.com<http://www.unitedcablecompany.com>
85 Király utca, 1077 Budapest
rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com
36-30-859-5144
[1467221477350_image005.png]
Its like buying regular ip-transit, but worse. -- hugge
Subject: Re: Virtual or Remote Peering Date: Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 08:02:47AM -0500 Quoting Mike Hammett (nanog@ics-il.net):
How well does this service work? I understand it usually involves point-to-multipoint Switched Ethernet with VLANs and resold IX ports. Sounds like a service for ISP that would like to peer, but have relatively small volumes for peering purposes or lopsided volumes.
Its like buying regular ip-transit, but worse.
That seems to be a rather lopsided opinion.
You get connections to other operators over an unreliable path that you have no control over, and the opportunities to keep traffic local are limited. Adding to that, it is all your fault since your provider does not do L3 and can claim a very passive rôle in the process. Like transit, but worse. -- Måns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina MN-1334-RIPE SA0XLR +46 705 989668 YOW!! The land of the rising SONY!!
A company you have a contractual arrangement with vs. random operators of which neither you nor the end party have any relationship with. Which one's unreliable, again?
From a technical perspective: router located with IX > wave to IX > switched PtP\PtMP to IX > remote peering service > transit
Fiscally, it's almost the other way around, with where transit goes being variable based on locations and volumes. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Måns Nilsson" <mansaxel@besserwisser.org> To: "Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net> Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 12:42:21 AM Subject: Re: Virtual or Remote Peering Subject: Re: Virtual or Remote Peering Date: Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 08:02:47AM -0500 Quoting Mike Hammett (nanog@ics-il.net):
How well does this service work? I understand it usually involves point-to-multipoint Switched Ethernet with VLANs and resold IX ports. Sounds like a service for ISP that would like to peer, but have relatively small volumes for peering purposes or lopsided volumes.
Its like buying regular ip-transit, but worse.
That seems to be a rather lopsided opinion.
You get connections to other operators over an unreliable path that you have no control over, and the opportunities to keep traffic local are limited. Adding to that, it is all your fault since your provider does not do L3 and can claim a very passive rôle in the process. Like transit, but worse. -- Måns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina MN-1334-RIPE SA0XLR +46 705 989668 YOW!! The land of the rising SONY!!
I think you are talking about different applications of remote peering. If you connect to a remote IX via transport the routing decision is more along the lines is this packet destined to me. Having a router sitting in the "remote" colo is of little value. It would not help to keep the traffic local as there are only two paths. The router would just forward between the ports on either side. A common application of this is a "backup" IX to pick up content in the event of a failure at the primary IX. A wave service is just a very long cross connect in this regard. If you provide services across the IX and start bouncing things through remote ports (that could stay local). That is a different animal. Jay On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 6:41 AM, Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:
A company you have a contractual arrangement with vs. random operators of which neither you nor the end party have any relationship with. Which one's unreliable, again?
From a technical perspective: router located with IX > wave to IX > switched PtP\PtMP to IX > remote peering service > transit
Fiscally, it's almost the other way around, with where transit goes being variable based on locations and volumes.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Måns Nilsson" <mansaxel@besserwisser.org> To: "Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net> Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 12:42:21 AM Subject: Re: Virtual or Remote Peering
Subject: Re: Virtual or Remote Peering Date: Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 08:02:47AM -0500 Quoting Mike Hammett (nanog@ics-il.net):
How well does this service work? I understand it usually involves point-to-multipoint Switched Ethernet with VLANs and resold IX ports. Sounds like a service for ISP that would like to peer, but have relatively small volumes for peering purposes or lopsided volumes.
Its like buying regular ip-transit, but worse.
That seems to be a rather lopsided opinion.
You get connections to other operators over an unreliable path that you have no control over, and the opportunities to keep traffic local are limited. Adding to that, it is all your fault since your provider does not do L3 and can claim a very passive rôle in the process.
Like transit, but worse.
-- Måns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina MN-1334-RIPE SA0XLR +46 705 989668 YOW!! The land of the rising SONY!!
I guess I didn't go on to say more about the router situation, but I meant an official network presence, diverse paths to other POPs, etc. for the first entry. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Hanke" <jayhanke@gmail.com> To: "Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net> Cc: "NANOG list" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 9:35:28 AM Subject: Re: Virtual or Remote Peering I think you are talking about different applications of remote peering. If you connect to a remote IX via transport the routing decision is more along the lines is this packet destined to me. Having a router sitting in the "remote" colo is of little value. It would not help to keep the traffic local as there are only two paths. The router would just forward between the ports on either side. A common application of this is a "backup" IX to pick up content in the event of a failure at the primary IX. A wave service is just a very long cross connect in this regard. If you provide services across the IX and start bouncing things through remote ports (that could stay local). That is a different animal. Jay On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 6:41 AM, Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:
A company you have a contractual arrangement with vs. random operators of which neither you nor the end party have any relationship with. Which one's unreliable, again?
From a technical perspective: router located with IX > wave to IX > switched PtP\PtMP to IX > remote peering service > transit
Fiscally, it's almost the other way around, with where transit goes being variable based on locations and volumes.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Måns Nilsson" <mansaxel@besserwisser.org> To: "Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net> Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 12:42:21 AM Subject: Re: Virtual or Remote Peering
Subject: Re: Virtual or Remote Peering Date: Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 08:02:47AM -0500 Quoting Mike Hammett (nanog@ics-il.net):
How well does this service work? I understand it usually involves point-to-multipoint Switched Ethernet with VLANs and resold IX ports. Sounds like a service for ISP that would like to peer, but have relatively small volumes for peering purposes or lopsided volumes.
Its like buying regular ip-transit, but worse.
That seems to be a rather lopsided opinion.
You get connections to other operators over an unreliable path that you have no control over, and the opportunities to keep traffic local are limited. Adding to that, it is all your fault since your provider does not do L3 and can claim a very passive rôle in the process.
Like transit, but worse.
-- Måns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina MN-1334-RIPE SA0XLR +46 705 989668 YOW!! The land of the rising SONY!!
It’s simply extending an exchange vlan over an l2circuit. It works as good as the provider’s network and the intended use for it. As a customer you either want to reach an exchange on a location you’re not at or get a smaller circuit then an exchange would normally sell you directly. Although you pay the provider that provides you the circuit into the exchange as a reseller, you are a full member there. There’s some controversy in the community on its intended use. Some companies simply use it to get onto an exchange within a metro or country without actually getting kit into an exchange’s POP to save money. Others use it across country borders/oceans and use a high-latency circuit to get onto a local exchange, which defeats some purpose of a local internet exchange. (short low latency-paths into local networks) Then again, getting a circuit from the US into an big exchange like LINX, AMSIX or DECIX can be very appealing on both saving cost of transit and keeping your as-paths (artificially?) short. Jeroen Wunnink IP Engineering manager office: +31.208.200.622 ext. 1011 Amsterdam Office www.gtt.net <http://www.gtt.net/> On 15/08/2017, 16:53, "NANOG on behalf of Rod Beck" <nanog-bounces@nanog.org on behalf of rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com> wrote: How well does this service work? I understand it usually involves point-to-multipoint Switched Ethernet with VLANs and resold IX ports. Sounds like a service for ISP that would like to peer, but have relatively small volumes for peering purposes or lopsided volumes. Roderick Beck Director of Global Sales United Cable Company DRG Undersea Consulting Affiliate Member www.unitedcablecompany.com<http://www.unitedcablecompany.com> 85 Király utca, 1077 Budapest rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com 36-30-859-5144 [1467221477350_image005.png]
On 15 August 2017 at 15:52, Rod Beck <rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com> wrote:
How well does this service work? I understand it usually involves point-to-multipoint Switched Ethernet with VLANs and resold IX ports. Sounds like a service for ISP that would like to peer, but have relatively small volumes for peering purposes or lopsided volumes.
Roderick Beck
Director of Global Sales
United Cable Company
DRG Undersea Consulting
Affiliate Member
www.unitedcablecompany.com<http://www.unitedcablecompany.com>
85 Király utca, 1077 Budapest
rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com
36-30-859-5144
[1467221477350_image005.png]
I think for very samll providers were cost pretty much governs everything, it is quite handy. I know of a small provider who takes/took a 1G pipe to such a remote connectivity provider, the pipe is split with VLANs and over one VLAN they have a remote peering session to a IXP, over another VLAN they receive a blended transit service and over another VLAN L2 connectivity to other PoP the remote peering provider is also. It is several eggs in one basket but for very small providers this can provide a much needed money saving opportunity. Cheers, James.
participants (7)
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Fredrik Korsbäck -
James Bensley -
Jay Hanke -
Jeroen Wunnink -
Mike Hammett -
Måns Nilsson -
Rod Beck