I'm all for working with the community. Each time I have, it has turned out that we need to operate relays. Possibly, SMTP AUTH will make unauthenticated relaying unnecessary. I'm still looking into how widely deployed it is on email clients. Its the foolish people who ASSUME that all of the internet is composed of cable modems and the company email server, and the internal company modem bank, all behind a firewall and a VPN who think we don't need to operate relays. Try to take relaying out of sendmail, and see what happens. I'm just foolish enough to tell the junior antispammer league that relaying has a legitimate purpose, and can't be removed. Most other people aren't willing to waste the time with them. I was also foolish enough to think they could think something through without resorting to abusing our servers, and making posts to alt.2600. Yep. I know when I did something wrong. --Dean Around 07:03 PM 11/22/1999 -0500, rumor has it that Greg A. Woods said:
[ On Monday, November 22, 1999 at 17:26:08 (-0500), Dean Anderson wrote: ]
Subject: Re: ARIN whois
We're up to 80K and rising. 2 big ones. Some smaller ones over 5K. Most the rest are under $500. Unless we can pin them to one or a small group of people. Then all their attacks are summed. A number of small attacks over a short period can then be criminal. This amount interests both lawyers and collections companies.
Dean you're being a libellous idiot. When the judge finds out you left your front doors wide open with a big flashing neon sign above them he'll no doubt have a very hard time controlling his laughter; if you can ever get your case that far, that is. The *real* costs are only those associated with closing your relays -- not some inflated price list for services you've invented.
If you'd try working *with* the community, instead of against it, you'd be one hell of a lot further along.
-- Greg A. Woods
+1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP <gwoods@acm.org> <robohack!woods> Planix, Inc. <woods@planix.com>; Secrets of the Weird <woods@weird.com>
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Plain Aviation, Inc dean@av8.com LAN/WAN/UNIX/NT/TCPIP http://www.av8.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
[ On Tuesday, November 23, 1999 at 11:56:56 (-0500), Dean Anderson wrote: ]
Subject: Re: ARIN whois
There you go posting private e-mail to the list again. Please don't do that! If you can't figure out how to run you're mailer properly then perhaps you shouldn't be using it. (Maybe I should have guessed at your mailer skills when I saw how your text wasn't nicely formatted....)
I'm all for working with the community. Each time I have, it has turned out that we need to operate relays.
That's a pretty damn poor service you're "offering" to the community then. Dis-service, more like.... As someone else has already tried to explain, mail relays never have to be "open relays".
Possibly, SMTP AUTH will make unauthenticated relaying unnecessary. I'm still looking into how widely deployed it is on email clients.
Possibly -- if *you* can figure out how to do it!
Its the foolish people who ASSUME that all of the internet is composed of cable modems and the company email server, and the internal company modem bank, all behind a firewall and a VPN who think we don't need to operate relays.
Try to take relaying out of sendmail, and see what happens.
Been there -- done that (well, with smail, not sendmail, but what the heck) -- on to more interesting challenges.
I'm just foolish enough to tell the junior antispammer league that relaying has a legitimate purpose, and can't be removed. Most other people aren't willing to waste the time with them. I was also foolish enough to think they could think something through without resorting to abusing our servers, and making posts to alt.2600. Yep. I know when I did something wrong.
Given your propensity for claiming you're going to make a profit from prosecuting the so-called "offenders", perhaps we should surmise that your true "legitimate business purpose" is to do just that. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP <gwoods@acm.org> <robohack!woods> Planix, Inc. <woods@planix.com>; Secrets of the Weird <woods@weird.com>
Dean Anderson wrote:
I'm all for working with the community. Each time I have, it has turned out that we need to operate relays.
RELAYS aren't a problem if they are restricted in some way, only allowing authorized users in. COMPLETELY UNRESTRICTED RELAYS are the problem. Have you tried pop before smtp on the relays you need to run?
Possibly, SMTP AUTH will make unauthenticated relaying unnecessary.
I sure hope so. I think it's the cleanest solution.
Try to take relaying out of sendmail, and see what happens.
I run nothing but sendmail and don't have open relays. I don't seem to have a problem.
I'm just foolish enough to tell the junior antispammer league that relaying has a legitimate purpose, and can't be removed. Most other people aren't willing to waste the time with them. I was also foolish enough to think they could think something through without resorting to abusing our servers, and making posts to alt.2600. Yep. I know when I did something wrong.
I have yet to hear you admit you've ever been wrong in the 2+ years I've been chatting with you. I think that bothers me more than any opinion you might have WRT spam and relays.
participants (3)
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Dean Anderson -
Steve Sobol -
woods＠most.weird.com