There is nothing in the Charter that states that I am out of line, nor does it specify a method of removing me from the list. I am not going to continue to carry this any farther, I just want to be certain that the membership knows what is going on. If the membership chooses to be sheep, that's fine. I will leave that alone. Since the Charter does not specify any procedure to modify the operation of NANOG, any action to do so, unless supported by the membership would be handled by the US courts. I am not willing to take that action, nor do I think it needs to be taken. If the membership chooses my proposed option #3, then that's good enough for me. UK PS, Don't insult me by trying to apply filters. I'd just find another way to get through if I wanted to, which I don't. </asshole> --- Opinions in this email are the personal opinions of the author and are not associated with author's employer. This email account is a not the regular email account of the author and is being used for the protection of the employer. On Feb 22 Danny Wrote: Oh, you don't want to play politics but you're certain we need more politics. Actually, you know, perhaps that would be good. Then the membership could vote to tell you that you've been heard, now it's time to shut up. -danny _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
At 11:08 AM 2/22/2001 -0600, Ukyo Kuonji wrote:
There is nothing in the Charter that states that I am out of line, nor does it specify a method of removing me from the list.
Dean, is that you? Regards, -- Martin Hannigan hannigan@fugawi.net Fugawi Networks Engineering Boston, MA http://www.fugawi.net Ph: 617.742.2693 Fax: 617.742.2300
On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Ukyo Kuonji wrote:
There is nothing in the Charter that states that I am out of line, nor does it specify a method of removing me from the list.
What was that about not being interested in politics? Andy xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Andy Dills 301-682-9972 Xecunet, LLC www.xecu.net xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Dialup * Webhosting * E-Commerce * High-Speed Access
* Ukyo Kuonji <kawaii_iinazuke@hotmail.com> [20010222 09:10]:
There is nothing in the Charter that states that I am out of line, nor does it specify a method of removing me from the list.
I am not going to continue to carry this any farther, I just want to be certain that the membership knows what is going on. If the membership chooses to be sheep, that's fine. I will leave that alone.
Sheep? Dude, if it ever got "bad" enough I'm sure among us we could manage to scrounge together the resources necessary in order to set up another e-mail list. If among this group of people no one was able to spare the puny bandwidth requirements for a new e-mail list, we've got much bigger problems to deal with than whether Cisco can hand out underwear at our get togethers. Like, oh I don't know -- maybe what distracted us from operating our networks. Hell, perhaps we'd even be able to get organized enough to manage to agree upon meeting up in some city a few times a year. Yeah, that's the ticket. :) Nobody is making anybody do anything.
Since the Charter does not specify any procedure to modify the operation of NANOG, any action to do so, unless supported by the membership would be handled by the US courts. I am not willing to take that action, nor do I think it needs to be taken.
Huh? Who are you going to take to court? Merit just helps organize the NANOG get togethers. Yeah, I disagree with the stipulation added in the last sentence of the latest addition to the charter. Not only on principle but also on merit (no pun intended). But you're missing the point: that last sentence being there doesn't really mean much. Since there is no "Nanog, Inc." that I am aware of, there is no entity to enforce that provision. This whole group is just an informal group of people with something in common, who happen to have sufficient collective elements that we manage to get together every once in a while in person. The people of Merit just happen to be cool enough to organize the whole thing. They don't own or control anything in any true entity sense. The way I see it, the charter exists as a good faith effort of organization. Nothing less. Nothing more. It *can't* be more as there is *no* NANOG the "entity" in any legal sense of the word (unless I've missed something drastic). Sure, whoever added that last addendum to the charter seems to have forgotten that. It strikes me as something more that belongs in an organizers or hosting organization's rules for a particular event. If you host/organize an event that happens to be attended by NANOG list people you can set whatever damn rules you like. If nobody likes your rules they either won't show up or won't come back. Merit, Inc. happens to organize the events at the moment. And you know what? If you really want to push it, there is nothing stopping you or Cisco or Juniper or whomever from just coincedentally setting up a table "near" where this conference called "NANOG" happens to be going on. "It's just coincedence we're here -- really." I don't want some NANOG BoD. Who the hell cares? What good would it do other than give a few people the ability to (maliciously or not) put into place a bunch of rules, by-laws, and regulations. To what end? There is *no* NANOG. The only NANOG is you and me and the rest of the people who hang out on this list. It's not like you joined a cult or something. Nobody has to sacrifice their virgin OC-192 and brand-spanking-new core router just to join the collective.
PS, Don't insult me by trying to apply filters. I'd just find another way to get through if I wanted to, which I don't.
If something as simple as that insults you, well, I'm impressed you've been able to operate a network without running away screaming. That very last sentence about "getting through"...that's sorta my point. This is the Internet afterall. If the nanog@merit.edu list suddenly goes entirely to shit, most of us would just move on. Perhaps create another list. Or whatever. -jr ---- Josh Richards [JTR38/JR539-ARIN] <jrichard@geekresearch.com/cubicle.net/fix.net/freedom.gen.ca.us> Geek Research LLC - <URL:http://www.geekresearch.com/> IP Network Engineering and Consulting
participants (4)
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Andy Dills -
Josh Richards -
Martin Hannigan -
Ukyo Kuonji