In message <20010309143229.C11331@eiv.com>, Shawn McMahon writes:
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On Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 09:10:09AM -0500, Steven M. Bellovin wrote:
=20 In my area of NJ, virtually every town's "obvious" .com domain names were= =20 grabbed by one of two competing would-be service providers. They had=20 absolutely no town-specific content -- but if the town wanted a Web=20 site, they had no choice but to deal with these folks. I have no major= =20
Bull. Where is it written that towns MUST have a .com address?
Those towns had .townname.nj.us available to them for FREE.
They chose to use .com, they chose to have the problem. It's about choices.
I chose a bad example, and folks are missing the point. I picked town names because it was a glaring case that I knew of personally -- but we've all seen similar behavior in "legitimate" .com space. But if you want to beat on my original point -- as I and others have noted, the townname.nj.us domains were also grabbed by speculators. In other words, that wasn't an option, either. I haven't tracked the process failure or the policy failure that gave rise to that situation, but it's very real. I live in Westfield -- try www.westfield.nj.us. Then try some neighboring towns -- Kenilworth, Cranford, Fanwood, Summit, and more. --Steve Bellovin, http://www.research.att.com/~smb
On Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 03:10:51PM -0500, Steven M. Bellovin wrote:
Bull. Where is it written that towns MUST have a .com address?
Those towns had .townname.nj.us available to them for FREE.
They chose to use .com, they chose to have the problem. It's about choices.
But if you want to beat on my original point -- as I and others have noted, the townname.nj.us domains were also grabbed by speculators. In other words, that wasn't an option, either. I haven't tracked the process failure or the policy failure that gave rise to that situation, but it's very real. I live in Westfield -- try www.westfield.nj.us. Then try some neighboring towns -- Kenilworth, Cranford, Fanwood, Summit, and more.
Nowhere in ISI's regulations have I seen that a city is entitled to have cityname.state.us. That's what ci.cityname.state.us is for, and AFAIK there is no way for you to register anything under ci.cityname.state.us unless you're affiliated with that city's government. IMO, it makes sense to do that.
Quoting Saint skullY the Dazed (skully@netlsd.org):
On Fri, Mar 09, 2001 at 03:10:51PM -0500, Steven M. Bellovin wrote:
But if you want to beat on my original point -- as I and others have noted, the townname.nj.us domains were also grabbed by speculators. In other words, that wasn't an option, either. I haven't tracked the process failure or the policy failure that gave rise to that situation, but it's very real. I live in Westfield -- try www.westfield.nj.us. Then try some neighboring towns -- Kenilworth, Cranford, Fanwood, Summit, and more.
Nowhere in ISI's regulations have I seen that a city is entitled to have cityname.state.us. That's what ci.cityname.state.us is for, and AFAIK there is no way for you to register anything under ci.cityname.state.us unless you're affiliated with that city's government. IMO, it makes sense to do that.
Hate to point out the obvious, but if one controls the zone westfield.nj.us, then they also have total control over delegating name service and assignment of any zones beneath it, i.e. ci.westfield.nj.us. Hence, back to the original dillema :) They have to deal with a company in Norfolk: Registrant: Online Cafe 17 Washington Street Norwalk, CT 06854 US Online Cafe?? It's nice of norwalk.com to allow axfr :) Note summit.nj.us has a "ci" subdomain, while westfield.nj.us has almost nothing, except "jix". ; <<>> DiG 8.2 <<>> axfr summit.nj.us @ns1.norwalk.com ; (1 server found) $ORIGIN summit.nj.us. @ 6H IN SOA ns1.norwalk.com. jw.research.troy.ny.us. ( 25 ; serial 14h11m30s ; refresh 2H ; retry 2W ; expiry 6H ) ; minimum 6H IN NS ns1.norwalk.com. 6H IN NS NS5.NORWALK.COM. 6H IN MX 20 MAIL.TROY.NY.us. 6H IN MX 10 mail.norwalk.com. 6H IN A 167.206.48.79 ci 1W IN NS ns.instantlink.com. 1W IN NS ns.rivint.com. friends 1W IN NS ns.timhunt.net. 1W IN NS ns3.swaney.com. 1W IN NS ns2.swaney.com. 1W IN NS sun1.swaney.com. mail 6H IN CNAME @ www 6H IN CNAME @ kentplace 1W IN NS pri2.dns.psi.net. 1W IN NS pri3.dns.psi.net. 1W IN NS pri1.dns.psi.net. apollo 1W IN NS dns.apollo 1W IN NS dns2.apollo ; <<>> DiG 8.2 <<>> axfr westfield.nj.us @ns1.norwalk.com ; (1 server found) $ORIGIN westfield.nj.us. @ 6H IN SOA ns1.norwalk.com. jw.research.troy.ny.us. ( 18 ; serial 14h12m ; refresh 2H ; retry 2W ; expiry 6H ) ; minimum 6H IN NS ns1.norwalk.com. 6H IN NS NS5.NORWALK.COM. 6H IN MX 10 mail.norwalk.com. 6H IN MX 20 MAIL.TROY.NY.us. 6H IN A 167.206.48.76 jix 1W IN NS ns1.nac.net. 1W IN NS ns2.nac.net. mail 6H IN CNAME @ www 6H IN CNAME @ @ 6H IN SOA ns1.norwalk.com. jw.research.troy.ny.us. ( 18 ; serial 14h12m ; refresh 2H ; retry 2W ; expiry 6H ) ; minimum Aaron -- Aaron L. Meehan aaron@coinet.com System Administrator Central Oregon Internet http://www.coinet.com/
In the referenced message, Steven M. Bellovin said:
But if you want to beat on my original point -- as I and others have noted, the townname.nj.us domains were also grabbed by speculators. In other words, that wasn't an option, either. I haven't tracked the process failure or the policy failure that gave rise to that situation, but it's very real. I live in Westfield -- try www.westfield.nj.us. Then try some neighboring towns -- Kenilworth, Cranford, Fanwood, Summit, and more.
--Steve Bellovin, http://www.research.att.com/~smb
host www.ci.westfield.nj.us Host not found. host www.ci.Kenilworth.nj.us Host not found. host www.ci.Cranford.nj.us Host not found. host www.ci.Fanwood.nj.us Host not found. host www.ci.Summit.nj.us www.ci.Summit.nj.us has address 208.226.227.34 hmm.. www.ci.summit.nj.us certainly seems to reflect the city of Summit, NJ.
participants (4)
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Aaron L. Meehan -
Saint skullY the Dazed -
Stephen Griffin -
Steven M. Bellovin