Has anyone started a "Paul Vix Defense Fund?" I'll contribute! (Speaking for myself, not for my company) Bill Goldstein Senior Internet Specialist AT&T wgoldstein@att.com TEL:(412)642-7288

---------- From: chrisn@qual.net[SMTP:chrisn@qual.net] To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: luser of the day award!

Anyone else get mail from this idiot?

Alan Bechtold (alanbechtold@sysop.com) @ 11/18/1998 12:48 - Original Problem Detail:

Dear sir or madam -- =20 It has come to my attention that your company utilizes the MAPS = BLACKHOLE list to block purported SPAMMERS from sending E-mail to your = system. While the idea might sound good I am writing to inform you that = you will be named in a Federal Lawsuit if you do not CEASE AND DESIST = use of this list IMMEDIATELY. =20 Here is why: =20 My company, BBS PRESS SERVICE, INC., designs and hosts Web sites. That's = all we do. We don't sell access to the Internet. We don't sell E-mail = accounts. Besides some E-mail accounts for our employees to use when = contacting our customers, and one E-mail account we use to send out a = weekly newsletter to our customers, we don't generally handle any E-mail = at all. =20 I am anti-SPAM. I advise all of my 5,000+ clients against the use of = SPAM. Still, two have used it to promote sites we host for them. =20 Naturally, this resulted in our receiving the usual barrage of E-mails = DEMANDING that we remove the Web sites of the offending parties. Our = attorneys have advised us that it is NOT in our best interest to do so. = Removing the Web site of anyone for something they did OUTSIDE of our = system, even if it was indeed PROMOTING a site hosted on our system, = would in fact expose my company to possible lawsuit from the SPAMMER! =20 I understand many Web site design and hosting services stipulate in = their contracts that they reserve the right to pull any site if evidence = of SPAMMING is seen -- but my attorneys have also advised me that this = is completely unenforceable in court and wouldn't stand up to a court = challenge. =20 I don't know about you but I am totally opposed to being REQUIRED to = take action against anyone for anything they've done outside of my = control. Do we also want to become liable for pulling Web sites held by = anyone who is convicted of a crime...any crime? Wouldn't this lead to = the requirement of background checks, to make sure a Web site customer = has never indeed beenconvicted of a crime? =20 The ramifications are tremendous. =20 Anyway -- I write to anyone complaining about SPAM from a client of mine = (and they do track down the Web site host even if we didn't originate = the SPAM) and inform them of my position. =20 One person apparently forwarded my reply to MAPS. Even though my reply = states CLEARLY that I am OPPOSED to SPAM, the kind folks at MAPS decided = to add my company's IP to the list anyway. The problem is -- they won't = TALK about resolving the problem. Their "volunteer" hung up on me when I = called, after first being outright surly and rude with me. I tried = E-mailing Paul Vix to tell him to remove my company's IP from his list = but -- guess what -- my E-mail got REJECTED by his system because he = uses the list! I finally got a message through by going through another = provider. Meanwhile Paul Vix has not returned my urgent calls and hasn't = been available on the phone when I do call. =20 This is causing my company irreparable harm. MAPS' whole attitude and = the way they create their so-called LIST is, because of my case alone, = entirely questionable. And he has left me little choice but to file suit = against Paul, MAPS and anyone associated with the LIST or using it in = their products or on their services. =20 This is where you come in. I am writing to tell you right now -- cease = and desist from using the MAPS BLACKHOLE list on your service = IMMEDIATELY. I will be including anyone and everyone still using the = MAPS list in my lawsuit against MAPS. Period. =20 You might also want to contact Paul Vixie and let him know the legal = jeopardy his methods have placed you in. By comparison, the SPAMMERS are = starting to look like the "good guys." I know they're not and you know = they're not but MAPS must end here and now. =20 I would appreciate your comments and cooperation. =20

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