OK.. I have lurked enough on this one.. $60 Billion plus for microsoft.. and 600 millions lines of code. thousands of employee programmers... $1 million for *NIX less than a million lines of code. rewritten on a whim, and source given to millions.. Bugs will be found and squashed easier. Less code, more eyes. and less complex. Less market, less users, less interest for hackers 5 less than statements for *NIX and how many more statements for Micro$oft? This is like trying to comparing the towing capacity of car to turbo diesal pickup. there is no comparison... I don't care if MicroSoft spends $600 Million a year, there will always be bugs. If a software package was perfect or a network was perfect how many of us would have jobs? Nothing in this world is perfect, and complaining about it does absolutely no good.... J -----Original Message----- From: Charles Sprickman [mailto:spork@inch.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 4:30 PM To: Crist Clark Cc: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: How much longer.. On Wed, 13 Aug 2003, Crist Clark wrote:
Attacks _are_ on Linux machines. There have been Linux worms, Lion attacked BIND, Ramen attacked rpc.statd and wu-ftpd, Slapper attached Apache, to name a few. Attacks are on Solaris, the sadmin/IIS worm (which also attacked IIS, a cross-platform worm, remember that, cool, huh?). Attacks are on FreeBSD, Scalper worm attacked Apache.
How soon people seem to forget these things.
No, I don't think people are forgetting, but what Len was originally pointing out is that Microsoft, *because* of their vast install base *needs* to take a more proactive role in producing a secure OS. And the reason you can call it a "toy" OS is that on one hand you have *BSD, Linux and friends all with an annual budget of what, maybe $1M? And on the other hand you have a multi-billion dollar *software* company. Which should churn out better software? :) Charles
To pound it home one more time, worms that attack Microsoft products are a bigger deal only because Microsoft has at least an order of magnitude greater installbase than the nearest competitor. -- Crist J. Clark crist.clark@globalstar.com Globalstar Communications (408) 933-4387
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"McBurnett, Jim" <jmcburnett@msmgmt.com> wrote:
OK.. I have lurked enough on this one.. $60 Billion plus for microsoft.. and 600 millions lines of code. thousands of employee programmers...
Problem is, you can't engage in gunfights with 5-0, rob banks or pimp your grandmother out on a *nix. On Windows you can do this in Grand Theft Auto 3. Its going to be OS of choice for home users (and thus a lot of businesses as people will be familiar with it) for a long time to come. The XP firewall was a step forward for MS. Now they need to turn it on and block by default giving the user an intuitive interface they can point and click at: "I want to use kazaa, e-donkey, etc". TT
"McBurnett, Jim" wrote:
I hate top posting, but I want to make sure to get this out of the way first. I was not trying to defend Microsoft. I meant to point out, JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT USING MICROSOFT DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU ARE SAFE! Bugs happen. Vulnerabilities happen. Worms happen. This worm has happened. Now that it has happened, it's impact is greater because of its install base. And solely for that reason. That's all I wanted to say. Why the worm happened and whether is should have happened are a completely different issues I was not trying to address. I do not plan on addressing them. People with more eloquence, more research in hand, and much, much more time to compose thoughtful essays have debated that endlessly for years now. I doubt my limited remarks on NANOG will move and hearts or win any minds who do not already agree with the classic, well-known arguments I would trot out one more time. But I'll respond to this mail anyway.
OK.. I have lurked enough on this one.. $60 Billion plus for microsoft.. and 600 millions lines of code. thousands of employee programmers...
No way MS has spent $60 billion on development. That's why they look soooo good, so much in sales versus the development costs. Or did you mispell "bazjillion?"
$1 million for *NIX less than a million lines of code. rewritten on a whim, and source given to millions.. Bugs will be found and squashed easier. Less code, more eyes. and less complex. Less market, less users, less interest for hackers
5 less than statements for *NIX and how many more statements for Micro$oft?
A pretty outlandish comparison with some broad characterizations and implicit assumptions. Where's the $1M for "UNIX" from? AT&T gave it away since they didn't think it was worth anything. Back then, vendors made money off of the hardware, the software was an incidental. (Sony makes the money selling you the DVD player, the pretty menus and configuration screens are just soft/firmware that comes with it with no real indpendent value... Now the soft/firmware on a TiVo or an X-Box... Maybe appliance software will develop independent value of its own someday too.) Oh, and I can rewrite the source to Solaris, a direct UNIX Sys V descendant, and they give it all away? I guess they forgot to send me my copy. Could I borrow yours? And send me your source to AIX while your at it too. And SCO's UnixWare? I'd like to look into this whole SCO versus IBM thing.
This is like trying to comparing the towing capacity of car to turbo diesal pickup.
OK, two things which are very easy to compare.
there is no comparison...
Uh, no, it's pretty easy to measure the power, torque, and many other capacities of interest for each vehicle and then do an objective comparison.
I don't care if MicroSoft spends $600 Million a year, there will always be bugs.
Sure will.
If a software package was perfect or a network was perfect how many of us would have jobs? Nothing in this world is perfect, and complaining about it does absolutely no good....
So your point was...? -- Crist J. Clark crist.clark@globalstar.com Globalstar Communications (408) 933-4387 The information contained in this e-mail message is confidential, intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact postmaster@globalstar.com
participants (3)
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Crist Clark -
McBurnett, Jim -
Tim Thorne