IGRP considered fatal
With Appologies to YR. two questions (and a task) for the list(s) 1. Please let me know (by private email) which IGP you are using. Replies to bmanning@isi.edu. 2. What will it take to get router vendors to modify default setup to select a classless IGP instead of (RIP,IGRP)? -- --bill
two questions (and a task) for the list(s) 2. What will it take to get router vendors to modify default setup to select a classless IGP instead of (RIP,IGRP)? The power-off of the last IPv4 network. You should understand that there are many reasons for this: - All of the classful protocols today are incredibly hard to work with for a beginning user. OSPF has about 3 orders of magnitude more knobs than it needs. EIGRP (which we tried REALLY hard to keep simple) is about two orders of magnitude too hard. Both are resource intensive and require careful hand-holding. RIP2 is less piggish, but still is two orders of magnitude too messy. - Please recall that the technical savvy of the beginner customer base has dropped two orders of magnitude in just the last three years. - You don't need classful in a stub network for CIDR purposes. Yes, it helps for address efficiency IF the user can figure out VLSM. - The defaults need to be for the most common case: rank beginner in a stub. - There are many networks which are NOT the Internet. CIDR only applies to the Internet. I sympathize, but this is a case where the intelligent actually must lose to the tyranny of the majority. Tony
Tony Li previously wrote:
two questions (and a task) for the list(s)
2. What will it take to get router vendors to modify default setup to select a classless IGP instead of (RIP,IGRP)?
The power-off of the last IPv4 network.
IPv4 will here for at least a while longer... :)
You should understand that there are many reasons for this:
- All of the classful protocols today are incredibly hard to work with for a beginning user. OSPF has about 3 orders of magnitude more knobs than it needs. EIGRP (which we tried REALLY hard to keep simple) is about two orders of magnitude too hard. Both are resource intensive and require careful hand-holding. RIP2 is less piggish, but still is two orders of magnitude too messy.
OSPF is unnecessarily hard to configure (even BGP4 is easier!). EIGRP is very nice, very simple; I have no complaints agaisnt it, other than the fact that it is proprietary. IS-IS is also nice to config, but far less flexible (no area #s).
- Please recall that the technical savvy of the beginner customer base has dropped two orders of magnitude in just the last three years.
Their problem.
- You don't need classful in a stub network for CIDR purposes. Yes, it helps for address efficiency IF the user can figure out VLSM.
No, you don't. Stub nets are what most small ISPs and what practically all small private Internet customers will be for some time. Those ISPs that can't grow very much past the stage of providing local dialup and some leased lines will be the ones to go away the fastest. I don't feel sorry for them.
- The defaults need to be for the most common case: rank beginner in a stub.
And their ISPs should route these customers via _static_ routing only. Makes life a lot simpler; besides, if an ISP is going to run a dynamic routing protocol with a singly-conneted client, then they'll have to filter the routing info they get from them (and maybe what they send), at which point they might as well be doing static routing.
- There are many networks which are NOT the Internet. CIDR only applies to the Internet.
No, why? CIDR is _clean_, it is _nice_. I'd use it in a private IP net that was not meant to connect to the Internet if it was large enough and available from all vendors.
I sympathize, but this is a case where the intelligent actually must lose to the tyranny of the majority.
We'll see who are the ones to go under over the next few years.
Tony
Nick
- Please recall that the technical savvy of the beginner customer base has dropped two orders of magnitude in just the last three years.
Their problem. No, not at all. It's _OUR_ problem.
- There are many networks which are NOT the Internet. CIDR only applies to the Internet.
No, why? CIDR is _clean_, it is _nice_. Nothing else has scaling problems. We'll see who are the ones to go under over the next few years. It won't be the end users. They are our customers. Tony
participants (3)
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bmanning＠ISI.EDU -
Nicolas Williams -
Tony Li