--------- bobf@studentsonly.com wrote:---------------- From: "Farrell,Bob" <bobf@studentsonly.com> Agreed, but apples and oranges to me in that example. I had an engineer that worked for me, then left our org. He spent over 70K in equipment and training out of his own pocket. He failed the CCIE lab 3 times and finally got it as he kept trying on the fourth attempt. He now holds a position in NYC, makes a great living, and I still get accolades from the company he now works for how lucky they were to get him, and what a great job he is doing. His job entails a very high level of responsibility. I think certs provide two things. One, the ability to show that you know what you are doing ( agreed grey area on that one ) , but also the commitment for one to better themselves..... someone I would look at in the hiring process first. Any/every applicant still goes through a rigorous interview process, and the uncertified sometimes win out. Depends on the applicant. ------------------------------------------------------ I have a degree in electrical engineering w/ an emphasis in communications systems and no vendor cert. Also, I have hands-on experiences on many products (cisco, Juniper, Alcatel, Foundry, 3Com, etc) and a lot of protocols (too many to mention, but am working on Alcatel's Triple Play stuff right now [IPTV is way cool]). What would you choose? Someone who only knows cisco or someone who can do it all? scott