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It looks in this case however like people want me to yell on the sprint outage list rather than here so I'll check out the possibility of doing that. Do you guys have an outtage list I can join? My apologies if I have offended anyone.

Gordon, you're taking my comments a bit differently than intended. More of a "outage was notified and then commented when closed" than a "go yell there". The current outage list at sprint is light-years better than the old sl-<mumble> lists where no traffic lived. My point was that if you want to know the specifics for a suppliers outages, go get on their list[s]. When in doubt, go off an VRFY some standard list-managers at the mail-hosts you see people's mail coming from. IMO, nanog is like a mega-NAP for the humans involved... a meetpoint, not a notification list. [clip]

the main processor." Give me a working network, better tools, or SHUT THE HELL UP AND GO BACK TO FARMING. I will be glad to shut up myself, once you get your act together and provide smooth and transparent network services.

Obviously I am able to send much more polite notes, but I am really getting sick and tired of this lousy performance and degrading network service qualities.

*At least* let people know if things are broken, so they look for alternatives (be it a cup of tea if short term, or another service provider if persistent). Again, all providers have [at least private] outages-lists. Some of

I think this may be the first case *for* decaf. [hwb, if you want to flame, then please direct to <flamage@rsuc.gen.ma.us>. I'll deal with it when there's time. Or delete it. none of us need it here.] Seriously, though, while we _are_ seeing the impact of the End of NSFnet and the insane increase in day-to-day, joe-average network usage, it was obviously impending and affects everyone, anywhere and ranting will do no-one no good. them only have them as part of their normal local annoucements, but that's due to change RSN according to my crystal ball... we all affect each other so much that we all will benefit, at least in exchanging outage data with near neighbors. Perhaps "known outage lists" would be a good appendix to the FAQ-in-progress? I like the idea of a meta-list, but it would have to be out-bound only [to be useful] and then you're starting to establish "who is important enough to be allowed" or "who/what method for moderation" etc etc... No-one's got time for that. What gets me is when you said earlier:

I suspect at least 80% of the problem is non-technical, but abministrative and mindset. On what do you base this suspicion?

Everone working on these things has to work on facts and tangibles. "It's broke! Fix it!" is less useful than looking down the fiber jumper to see what's clogging the data. Anyway, here's to second mo's comment; may your pagers not go off while carving the [turkey|tofu]. Cheers, Joe Provo Network Operations Center UltraNet Communications, Inc.