RE: Can a customer take IP's with them?
Hello Alex,
In other words, customer is asking a court to rule whether or not IP space should be portable, when an industry- supported organization (ARIN) has made policy that the space is in fact not portable. It can be further argued that the court could impose a TRO that would potentially negatively affect the operation of my network.
A court will likely decide this based upon the terms of your contract and what the court thinks is fair. They will likely give very little consideration to common practice or ARIN's rules.
That's the crux of the biscuit. Your case depends on whether you provided for this in your contract with the customer. If its missing, you have a big challenge on your hands. No RFC or ARIN policy is a binding legal document. If its there, your chances are much better. So, do you discuss non-portable address space assignment in your contract? Where was this case filed? NJ or federal court? Do let us know how it turns out. This will establish a key legal precedent. Chris
On Jun 23, 2004, at 1:11 PM, Chris Ranch wrote:
A court will likely decide this based upon the terms of your contract and what the court thinks is fair. They will likely give very little consideration to common practice or ARIN's rules.
That's the crux of the biscuit. Your case depends on whether you provided for this in your contract with the customer. If its missing, you have a big challenge on your hands. No RFC or ARIN policy is a binding legal document. If its there, your chances are much better.
I disagree. ICANN has legal standing as the "owner" of all IP space. If NAC wrote a contract that said "we'll sell you this /16 for $100K", it would not be valid. At least I hope it is not, or the whole Internet is in deep d00 d00. (The again, we probably already are. :) ARIN owns the IP space, and ARIN says the customer 1) Cannot take PA space with them, and 2) Must renumber into the PI space they were given. It sure would be nice if the NAC contract said "you can't take IP space with you", but I really do not think it is necessary. Also, since NAC is paying ARIN for that space, I am not sure why this would not constitute theft. If I lease a parking lot and give you a space when you rent an apartment from me, you cannot get a TRO to use the parking space after you stop renting the apartment from me. -- TTFN, patrick
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004, Chris Ranch wrote:
That's the crux of the biscuit. Your case depends on whether you provided for this in your contract with the customer. If its missing, you have a big challenge on your hands. No RFC or ARIN policy is a binding legal document. If its there, your chances are much better.
So that contract I signed with ARIN isn't binding? http://www.arin.net/library/agreements/rsa.pdf "8. REVIEW OF APPLICANTS NUMBERING RESOURCES. ARIN may review, at any time, Applicants use of the previously allocated numbering resources or other Services to determine if Applicant is complying with this Agreement, the Policies, and using the Services for their intended purposes. Without limiting the foregoing, if Applicant is an Internet Service Provider, Applicant agrees that it will use the numbering resources solely for uses consistent with its application, including, for example, its internal infrastructure or to provide Internet access to its customer base. If ARIN determines that the numbering resources or any other Services are not being used in compliance with this Agreement, the Policies, or for purposes for which they are intended, ARIN may: (i) revoke the numbering resources, (ii) cease providing the Services to Applicant, or (iii) terminate this Agreement." And of utmost importance: "9. NO PROPERTY RIGHTS. Applicant acknowledges and agrees that the numbering resources are not property (real, personal or intellectual) and that Applicant shall not acquire any property rights in or to any numbering resources by virtue of this Agreement or otherwise. Applicant further agrees that it will not attempt, directly or indirectly, to obtain or assert any trademark, service mark, copyright or any other form of property rights in any numbering resources in the United States or any other country." Seems pretty clear to me. Andy --- Andy Dills Xecunet, Inc. www.xecu.net 301-682-9972 ---
participants (3)
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Andy Dills -
Chris Ranch -
Patrick W Gilmore