Maybe this all is just a result of different inefficient (IP Wise not $$ wise) network designs... like those that rely on upstream providers to provide a "virtual" backbone for a company because they design thier network to be discontiguous... Thanks, Paul On Tue, 2005-02-15 at 08:21 -0500, Bruce Eastman wrote:

...

Jon is right. Deaggregation is not a laughing matter. Its poor management at least from a netizens point of view....

Well, the warning advisory in and of itself was meant to interject a little humor, but the idea was serious. ARIN submits an e-mail message to the customer, with each allocation. I think John's idea of adding a short paragraph and direction to a few links was a very good idea. I believe the message sent out with each allocation would be a good place to add said links and paragraph.

Bruce Eastman

----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Darte" <billd@cait.wustl.edu> To: "'Bruce Eastman '" <bruce.eastman@adelphia.com>; <owner-ppml@arin.net>; <ppml@arin.net> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 6:32 PM Subject: RE: [ppml] Deaggregation in the ARIN region Was: [nanog] The Cidr Report

...

Jon is right. Deaggregation is not a laughing matter. Its poor management at least from a netizens point of view....

Still, you advisory below is a hoot! I like it.

Bill Darte

Bruce Eastman said:

Maybe ARIN should add a Warning label. :)

WARNING - DANGER - READ THIS & HEED THIS!

WARNING: THIS IS NOT A TOY. THIS IP IS DESIGNED FOR USE BY EXPERIENCED NETWORKING PERSONNEL AND IS INTENDED

FOR USE BY AN EXPERT IN ROUTING. THESE IP'S ARE INTENDED FOR USE SOLELY BY SENIOR NETWORK ENGINEER TYPES

( WITH NECESSARY SAFETY EQUIPMENT ). NO OTHER USE IS INTENDED OR RECOMMENDED. ILLEGAL TO OWN, PURCHASE OR

TRANSFER BY ANYONE OTHER THAN ARIN OR OUTSIDE THE TERMS AFOREMENTIONED. MISUSE OR CARELESS USE MAY CAUSE

SERIOUS ROUTING DEAGGREGATION. READ OWNERS MANUAL BEFORE USING.

Bruce Eastman Senior IP Analyst Adelphia Communications

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Lewis" <jlewis@lewis.org> To: "Andrew Dul" <andrew.dul@quark.net> Cc: <ppml@arin.net> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [ppml] Deaggregation in the ARIN region Was: [nanog] The Cidr Report

...

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005, Andrew Dul wrote:

...

I was wondering if people in the ARIN region agreed with these statements about the ARIN region not doing enough to educate the membership about deaggregation, BGP annoucements etc...

If ARIN were to do more what would you suggest?

1. More/Better online training 2. Regional Training session (similar to RIPE?)

Whether or not ARIN actually did any training courses, it would be nice to see some info on BCPs for BGP routing in the training section of the ARIN web site rather than just "how to use whois" and "how to jump through the hoops to get IP space".

Too many networks deaggregate their announcements for no reason simply because they don't realize there's any reason they shouldn't.

Covering things like route filtering (i.e. not leaking provider A's routes to provider B) would be nice. Might even mention the use of routing registries (radb, altdb, ARIN's own one, etc.).

To make a bad analogy, right now, ARIN's like a gun shop selling guns with no manuals and no safety literature. Not everyone who's buying knows how to use them safely.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Lewis | I route Senior Network Engineer | therefore you are Atlantic Net | _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________