RE: black hat .cn networks
-----Original Message----- From: Justin Hinderliter
The past week i've seen attacks increase 5-fold, mostly 111/udp attacks [snip]
Justin, et al, do you have any *proof* that these attacks are coming from Chinese attackers on Chinese machines? If so, look for commonalities amongst the attacks such as common netblocks etc. If not, the hype could probably be routed into the round file. Attacks happen all the time to the good and the bad. We still need good documentation and due diligence. Until then, join "North America Nonblocking Oriental Groups" -Paul Lantinga -- Pretty much guaranteed that these are solely my opinions
On Tue, 8 May 2001, Paul Lantinga wrote:
Justin, et al, do you have any *proof* that these attacks are coming from Chinese attackers on Chinese machines?
We may never know since mainland china admins never respond to abuse mails. -Dan
On Mon, 7 May 2001, Dan Hollis wrote:
On Tue, 8 May 2001, Paul Lantinga wrote:
Justin, et al, do you have any *proof* that these attacks are coming from Chinese attackers on Chinese machines?
We may never know since mainland china admins never respond to abuse mails.
When a netblock admin does not respond to abusemail, a nullroute should be set. Regardless of nationality. Unresponsive admins are a threat to your (and my) network as well as any other network connected.. -- /* Sabri Berisha CCNA,BOFH,+iO O.O Business Internet Trends * Join HAL!!: www.HAL2001.org ____oOo_U_oOo____ http://www.bit.nl/~sabri * ____________________________________________, +31 318648688 318643334 * DDoS: http://misterpoll.com/3517731598.html L_______________________ */
Justin, et al, do you have any *proof* that these attacks are coming from Chinese attackers on Chinese machines? We may never know since mainland china admins never respond to abuse mails.
as opposed to jingoistic american site admins. and flying pigs. randy
On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 11:13:23PM -0700, Dan Hollis wrote:
We may never know since mainland china admins never respond to abuse mails.
Do you send the complaints in Chinese? Alternately, do you respond to complaints sent to your abuse address that are written in Chinese?
On Tue, 8 May 2001, Shawn McMahon wrote:
On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 11:13:23PM -0700, Dan Hollis wrote:
We may never know since mainland china admins never respond to abuse mails.
Do you send the complaints in Chinese?
Alternately, do you respond to complaints sent to your abuse address that are written in Chinese?
You can fly into any international airport in the world and assume that the ground control staff can speak English. In the same way, the lingua franca of the global Internet is English. If we are going to be politically correct and insist that every NOC in the world be capable of communicating in all of the major languages of the world, the Internet will grind to a halt. -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015
On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 06:28:30PM +0100, Jim Dixon wrote:
You can fly into any international airport in the world and assume that the ground control staff can speak English.
In the same way, the lingua franca of the global Internet is English.
No, not in the same way at all. There is no treaty to which countries who wish to connect to the internet are bound, stating that they will conduct their business in English.
If we are going to be politically correct and insist that every NOC in the world be capable of communicating in all of the major languages of the world, the Internet will grind to a halt.
And if we are going to insist that they all speak English, we are going to be insisting to deaf ears; case in point, all the complaints here about abuse complaints being blackholed.
On Tue, 8 May 2001, Shawn McMahon wrote:
If we are going to be politically correct and insist that every NOC in the world be capable of communicating in all of the major languages of the world, the Internet will grind to a halt.
And if we are going to insist that they all speak English, we are going to be insisting to deaf ears; case in point, all the complaints here about abuse complaints being blackholed.
The very practical hard reality is that those running the Internet communicate in English. The reason for this is very simple: cost. In Europe, adding simultaneous translation into the major EU languages can easily double the cost of holding a conference. This sort of compromise is universal. There are many languages within China, for example, but people compromise by using one of them for universal communications, the language commonly called Mandarin. Nobody is insisting that the world's NOCs communicate in English. They just do, because it's practical. In most countries, there is a very high probability that anyone with a technical education has had several years of English in school. This is certainly the case in Japan, China, Russia, India, Pakistan, most of Southeast Asia, and the countries of northern Europe. It may be that in ten years or so machine translation will be accurate enough and cheap enough to allow the sort of thing that you propose. However, I suspect that most people will use this high quality machine translation to improve the quality of their translations to and from English. Once again, it's simple economics: if there are N languages, the cost of writing translators to and from English is going to be proportional to N, but the cost of writing a full set of translators between all N languages is going to be proportional to N squared, a huge number. Attempting to build a universal tool for translating problem reports into all the languages of the world is a utopian project that is not going to succeed. A more realistic goal would be trying to get English-speaking engineers to write problem reports in good, clear English. I don't think that that is going to happen, and it's far easier to achieve than what you are proposing. -- Jim Dixon VBCnet GB Ltd http://www.vbc.net tel +44 117 929 1316 fax +44 117 927 2015
On Wed, May 09, 2001, Jim Dixon wrote:
The very practical hard reality is that those running the Internet communicate in English. The reason for this is very simple: cost. In Europe, adding simultaneous translation into the major EU languages can easily double the cost of holding a conference.
Thats weird. WSee, the company I work for is based in Europe, and we have offices pretty much everywhere. In theory everyone is meant to have English speaking people there, but in practice we spend a lot of our time finding people to speak a common language. See, Europeans have this knack to speak more than one language. So, the dutch people here speak english and german at least. Some also speak French. Some also speak Norweigan, Finnish, Danish, Sweedish, Swiss, Italian .. I've had to get a Dutch guy to ring someone in our swiss office who he knew could also speak Italian to speak to someone in our Italian office. :-)
Nobody is insisting that the world's NOCs communicate in English. They just do, because it's practical. In most countries, there is a very high probability that anyone with a technical education has had several years of English in school. This is certainly the case in Japan, China, Russia, India, Pakistan, most of Southeast Asia, and the countries of northern Europe.
If they were doctors or pilots then sure, I can believe they've had several years in school. But these are technical people. We've all complained privately about the falling average clue level out there. Gear requires less and less clue to operate, and as internationalisation of computer equipment gets more popular you'll find that the monkey that only speaks Chinese, has setup a default install of redhat 7.0 on his servers and has configured his cisco to do BGP but fucked all the access filters is going to be a PAIN to get anything to fix. Combine this with cultural differences and you're going to be increasingly shocked as the internet becomes less US centric. Sorry guys, but we are all going to have to deal with it eventually. Now, this website. I like it. Who wants to work on generating a few templates? Adrian -- Adrian Chadd "How could we possibly use sex to get <adrian@creative.net.au> what we want? Sex _IS_ what we want!" -- Fraser
On Wed, May 09, 2001 at 08:12:29AM +0100, Jim Dixon wrote:
English. I don't think that that is going to happen, and it's far easier to achieve than what you are proposing.
I guess I missed the email where I proposed something. Could you quote it back to me?
On Tue, 8 May 2001, Shawn McMahon wrote:
On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 11:13:23PM -0700, Dan Hollis wrote:
We may never know since mainland china admins never respond to abuse mails. Do you send the complaints in Chinese?
I have, it didnt change anything. They continued to respond with deafening silence.
Alternately, do you respond to complaints sent to your abuse address that are written in Chinese?
We havent received any chinese complaints to our abuse mailbox yet, but I would throw them through babelfish if I received any, and I have native chinese speaking friends I can fall back on if babelfish doesnt work out. -Dan
Dan;
On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 11:13:23PM -0700, Dan Hollis wrote:
We may never know since mainland china admins never respond to abuse mails. Do you send the complaints in Chinese?
I have, it didnt change anything. They continued to respond with deafening silence.
What character encoding did you use? Big5 is for Taiwan. EUC-GB is for mainland China. Masataka Ohta
On Wed, 9 May 2001, Masataka Ohta wrote:
Dan;
On Mon, May 07, 2001 at 11:13:23PM -0700, Dan Hollis wrote:
We may never know since mainland china admins never respond to abuse mails. Do you send the complaints in Chinese? I have, it didnt change anything. They continued to respond with deafening silence. What character encoding did you use? Big5 is for Taiwan. EUC-GB is for mainland China.
I don't know the encoding, it's been quite some time since I sent the mail. Since I told him it was for a .cn site I assume my friend encoded it properly. But dont't mainland chinese know how to handle both encodings? Just like japanese know how to handle EUC-JP, SJIS... -Dan
participants (8)
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Adrian Chadd -
Dan Hollis -
Jim Dixon -
Masataka Ohta -
Paul Lantinga -
Randy Bush -
Sabri Berisha -
Shawn McMahon