Managed global low latency network with any to any connectivity
Hello guys, I am looking for a global network with: - lowest possible latency - lowest possible jitter (packet loss and latency variation) - lowest possible monetary cost The few providers I have talked to until now, they all provide a point-to-point low latency link. However, what I am looking for is any-to-any connectivity so I can get from one point to another in least possible time and least possible cost. Would appreciate if you guys can point me in the right direction. Thanks! Arqam
AT&T's AVPN product (Layer 3 VPN/"MPLS") does any-any routing and constantly changes L3 hops for the best pathing. I've used the service at a few jobs and the product itself is quite good. Dealing with them for things like MACD's can be...frustrating. We've never had a location they couldn't service either directly or via another last mile carrier. Spencer Ryan | Senior Systems Administrator | sryan@arbor.net<mailto:sryan@arbor.net> Arbor Networks +1.734.794.5033 (d) | +1.734.846.2053 (m) www.arbornetworks.com<http://www.arbornetworks.com/> ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Arqam Gadit <gadit.arqam@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 11:13:56 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Managed global low latency network with any to any connectivity Hello guys, I am looking for a global network with: - lowest possible latency - lowest possible jitter (packet loss and latency variation) - lowest possible monetary cost The few providers I have talked to until now, they all provide a point-to-point low latency link. However, what I am looking for is any-to-any connectivity so I can get from one point to another in least possible time and least possible cost. Would appreciate if you guys can point me in the right direction. Thanks! Arqam
There are standard routes and there are low latency routes that serve mostly traders. The latter charge a big premium. He said the lowest possible latency. That is a specialty market where the SLAs are in microseconds, not milliseconds. Many carriers have a division for ultra low latency. Hibernia Atlantic built express which is just used by financial traders. No one else can afford it. And since low latency is the name of the game, it means waves or SDH or SONET. Not Ethernet switching. Regards, Roderick. ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Ryan, Spencer <sryan@arbor.net> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 5:20 PM To: Arqam Gadit; nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Managed global low latency network with any to any connectivity AT&T's AVPN product (Layer 3 VPN/"MPLS") does any-any routing and constantly changes L3 hops for the best pathing. I've used the service at a few jobs and the product itself is quite good. Dealing with them for things like MACD's can be...frustrating. We've never had a location they couldn't service either directly or via another last mile carrier. Spencer Ryan | Senior Systems Administrator | sryan@arbor.net<mailto:sryan@arbor.net> Arbor Networks +1.734.794.5033 (d) | +1.734.846.2053 (m) www.arbornetworks.com<http://www.arbornetworks.com/<http://www.arbornetworks.com<http://www.arbornetworks.com/>> ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Arqam Gadit <gadit.arqam@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 11:13:56 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Managed global low latency network with any to any connectivity Hello guys, I am looking for a global network with: - lowest possible latency - lowest possible jitter (packet loss and latency variation) - lowest possible monetary cost The few providers I have talked to until now, they all provide a point-to-point low latency link. However, what I am looking for is any-to-any connectivity so I can get from one point to another in least possible time and least possible cost. Would appreciate if you guys can point me in the right direction. Thanks! Arqam
The real issue in the request is that this person is looking for any-to-any connectivity which will require either a single L2 switching domain or a L3 routing domain. While waves, SDH, and SONET might be your layer one transport there are two major factors that are going to affect latency and jitter the most. 1. Geography - Any point to any point has a minimum latency due to simple mileage/medium constraints. You cannot possibly go any faster than the velocity of propagation over the media of your choice. For example, lowest latency at layer 1 would probably be P2P microwave (which has a faster velocity of propagation than light over fiber) but that would not be an effective way to cross the Pacific ocean. 2. Routing/Switching queuing latency - If you want real any to any connectivity you need routing or switching logic which takes time. For example, lowest latency at layer 1 would probably be P2P microwave (which has a faster velocity of propagation than fiber) but that would not be an effective way to cross the Pacific ocean. If you are doing an MPLS VPN architecture within the US, your routing/switching latency are probably going to be more significant than the layer one technology but when you go transoceanic your layer 1 latency becomes more significant. The differences in electrical, free RF or optical (like microwave), and optical over fiber will vary by something like 30-40% of the speed of light over the mileage of the link. The routing/switching of an any-to-any architecture will probably dwarf most of the differences in media. Steven Naslund Chicago IL -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Rod Beck Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 10:45 AM To: Ryan, Spencer; Arqam Gadit; nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Managed global low latency network with any to any connectivity There are standard routes and there are low latency routes that serve mostly traders. The latter charge a big premium. He said the lowest possible latency. That is a specialty market where the SLAs are in microseconds, not milliseconds. Many carriers have a division for ultra low latency. Hibernia Atlantic built express which is just used by financial traders. No one else can afford it. And since low latency is the name of the game, it means waves or SDH or SONET. Not Ethernet switching. Regards, Roderick.
Thanks for the input everyone :) @Mikael, Roderick, Unlike HFT and financial markets, the applications we have to support are not microsecond-sensitive. Infact, a +-10ms difference from 'least possible' is acceptable provided that the connection is stable. So basically I am looking for most cost-effective ways to achieve that using existing products/services. @Ryan, I'll get in touch with AT&T guys. Thanks! Arqam On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 8:45 PM, Rod Beck <rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com> wrote:
There are standard routes and there are low latency routes that serve mostly traders. The latter charge a big premium. He said the lowest possible latency. That is a specialty market where the SLAs are in microseconds, not milliseconds. Many carriers have a division for ultra low latency. Hibernia Atlantic built express which is just used by financial traders. No one else can afford it. And since low latency is the name of the game, it means waves or SDH or SONET. Not Ethernet switching.
Regards,
Roderick.
------------------------------ *From:* NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Ryan, Spencer < sryan@arbor.net> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 24, 2016 5:20 PM *To:* Arqam Gadit; nanog@nanog.org *Subject:* Re: Managed global low latency network with any to any connectivity
AT&T's AVPN product (Layer 3 VPN/"MPLS") does any-any routing and constantly changes L3 hops for the best pathing.
I've used the service at a few jobs and the product itself is quite good. Dealing with them for things like MACD's can be...frustrating.
We've never had a location they couldn't service either directly or via another last mile carrier.
Spencer Ryan | Senior Systems Administrator | sryan@arbor.net< mailto:sryan@arbor.net <sryan@arbor.net>> Arbor Networks +1.734.794.5033 (d) | +1.734.846.2053 (m) www.arbornetworks.com<http://www.arbornetworks.com/>
________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Arqam Gadit < gadit.arqam@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 11:13:56 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Managed global low latency network with any to any connectivity
Hello guys,
I am looking for a global network with:
- lowest possible latency - lowest possible jitter (packet loss and latency variation) - lowest possible monetary cost
The few providers I have talked to until now, they all provide a point-to-point low latency link. However, what I am looking for is any-to-any connectivity so I can get from one point to another in least possible time and least possible cost.
Would appreciate if you guys can point me in the right direction.
Thanks!
Arqam
On Wed, 24 Aug 2016, Arqam Gadit wrote:
Hello guys,
I am looking for a global network with:
- lowest possible latency - lowest possible jitter (packet loss and latency variation) - lowest possible monetary cost
The few providers I have talked to until now, they all provide a point-to-point low latency link. However, what I am looking for is any-to-any connectivity so I can get from one point to another in least possible time and least possible cost.
Would appreciate if you guys can point me in the right direction.
The right direction is to decide what is most important to you. There is no network in the world that provides all of your criteria at once. Some people are paying really good money for low latency/PDV. Some other people are paying little money, but in return get low latency and PDV. So what's most important to you? Money or network characteristics? -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se
So you want point-to-multipoint which means Switched Ethernet. But ultra latency traders don't want the extra latency associated with Switched Ethernet. And they dominate the demand for ultra-low latency. Regards, Roderick. United Cable Company ________________________________ From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Arqam Gadit <gadit.arqam@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 5:13 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Managed global low latency network with any to any connectivity Hello guys, I am looking for a global network with: - lowest possible latency - lowest possible jitter (packet loss and latency variation) - lowest possible monetary cost The few providers I have talked to until now, they all provide a point-to-point low latency link. However, what I am looking for is any-to-any connectivity so I can get from one point to another in least possible time and least possible cost. Would appreciate if you guys can point me in the right direction. Thanks! Arqam
This is kind of the holy grail of networks you are looking for. You have to be a lot more specific than global to really shop this. As far as I know (and I have looked a lot), there is not one network that can get you to most countries with the best performance. For example, China is a particular case of a limited number of carriers delivering the last mile. There are a lot of countries that also have nationalized monopolies that can't be avoided. Best idea is to put together an RFP listing the countries you are interested in with the SLA you want. Various providers are teamed with other providers to provide a complete solution but there will definitely be carriers stronger in certain regions. If you are talking about any-to-any connectivity on a global basis you are looking at an MPLS VPN type of network in order to deal with last mile transport over various providers. In my experience that is about the only way to get a real global any-to-any private network. Also, the old saying: "cheap, reliable, fast; pick any two" really applies in this case. Steven Naslund Chicago IL From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org> on behalf of Arqam Gadit <gadit.arqam@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 5:13 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Managed global low latency network with any to any connectivity Hello guys, I am looking for a global network with: - lowest possible latency - lowest possible jitter (packet loss and latency variation) - lowest possible monetary cost The few providers I have talked to until now, they all provide a point-to-point low latency link. However, what I am looking for is any-to-any connectivity so I can get from one point to another in least possible time and least possible cost. Would appreciate if you guys can point me in the right direction. Thanks! Arqam
On 8/24/16 8:13 AM, Arqam Gadit wrote:
Hello guys,
I am looking for a global network with:
- lowest possible latency - lowest possible jitter (packet loss and latency variation) - lowest possible monetary cost
You asked for: - Fast - Good - Cheap Sorry, but you're only allowed to choose two. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV
participants (6)
-
Arqam Gadit -
Jay Hennigan -
Mikael Abrahamsson -
Naslund, Steve -
Rod Beck -
Ryan, Spencer