IMHO the 3, 10, and 32 networks are just the tip of the iceberg. Speaking from both sides(15 years networking as well as similar time doing applications), NAT, SOCKS, etc, are only pushing out the inevitable window. Networking professionals need to be actively promoting to applications vendors(and yes Virgina, I am internally) the inherent evils that all too commonly come with private address space. When applications clash with reserved address space, all pay. Consider the outsourcing companies, some of whom I've visited. Many companies are using private space already, most of whom are outside of the USA. Applications specifically written utilizing IP addresses, regardless of DNS space, etc, are prolific alover the place. As a result, any technology utilized by major, or minor ISP's will have a potential dangerous side effect, when things like DoS are concerned. Why? Because when you run a NOC, and you outsource, and a customer site is involved in something like smurfing, you're not going to know from whence the packets have come from. -- steve c blair tivoli systems inc sblair@dev.tivoli.com "And someday, with enough marketing thrust, pigs could fly"