Hello, I working on a plan about improving/upgrading a Euro-DOCSIS3 based cable network with the following requirements (very briefly): -20 CMTS-es on different locations needs to be connected to the network All of these locations currently connecting to the internet through 1Gbit/s link through a single internet provider, I have to upgrade them to be able to connect to at least 2 but ideally 3 ISPs at the same time and use their links for failover (do bgp peering as well). What type of *budget* routers would you recommend to use for this purpose if cisco is not an option (the company doesn't want to buy cisco equipment)? If you can please give me exact model numbers. The company has over 35K customers at the moment which use various cable modems on different areas (docsis1-3). In the future this network has to be able to provide, max 240Mb download/30 Mb upload speed per customer. I also have to give them a proposal about what type of docsis3 cable modems should they buy in the future. And in addition they need some ABR video streaming solution. I know it's a very brief statement and I left out a lot details, so any hw suggestions are more than welcome. Have a nice day folks!
I think you oversubscribed... 10,000 to 1 seems a bit steep. On 07/18/2014 06:42 AM, Toney Mareo wrote: Hello, I working on a plan about improving/upgrading a Euro-DOCSIS3 based cable network with the following requirements (very briefly): -20 CMTS-es on different locations needs to be connected to the network All of these locations currently connecting to the internet through 1Gbit/s link through a single internet provider, I have to upgrade them to be able to connect to at least 2 but ideally 3 ISPs at the same time and use their links for failover (do bgp peering as well). What type of *budget* routers would you recommend to use for this purpose if cisco is not an option (the company doesn't want to buy cisco equipment)? If you can please give me exact model numbers. The company has over 35K customers at the moment which use various cable modems on different areas (docsis1-3). In the future this network has to be able to provide, max 240Mb download/30 Mb upload speed per customer. I also have to give them a proposal about what type of docsis3 cable modems should they buy in the future. And in addition they need some ABR video streaming solution. I know it's a very brief statement and I left out a lot details, so any hw suggestions are more than welcome. Have a nice day folks! -- Christopher Thompson | Client Care | SolutionInc Limited Office: +1.902.420-0077 | Fax: +1.902.420.0233 Email: chris.thompson@solutioninc.com Website: www.solutioninc.com <http://www.solutioninc.com/> SolutionInc Limited - Simplifying Internet Access SolutionInc Limited - Simplifying Internet Access With operations in more than 45 countries worldwide, SolutionInc is an established global leader in Internet, centralized hotspot connectivity, billing and management solutions. SolutionInc provides software and services to the hospitality and telecommunications industries through its award-winning, patented technology software products: SolutionIP(tm) and SolutionIP(tm) Enterprise. Through 700,000+ touch points, SolutionIP(tm) allows people to easily and securely connect to the Internet from locations such as hotel rooms, convention centres, universities, restaurants and airports. Patent Information <http://www.solutioninc.com/patents/> If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately at 902 420 0077 or reply by e-mail to the sender and destroy the original communication. Thank you.
I don't think there are any 'budget' routers that would move the amount of data you are looking at trying to do. 35k subs @ 240Mb is 8.4Tb/s at 100% utilization, even at a somewhat high 100:1 oversubsctiption you are looking at over 80Gb/s While our DOCSIS network is only 4000 subs, we peak at around 1.8gb/s on 10Mb packages, while oversubscription can increase with higher speed packages, as many users would never use that much bandwidth, some will, and even 1% of your customer base capping out a 240Mb would take most of a 10Gb pipe, and you still would have 34000 other subs to handle. I can't see offering 240Mb service to over 35k subs on anything less than a 100g core, and even that would be pushing it. Ben Hatton Network Engineer Haefele TV On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Chris R. Thompson < chris.thompson@solutioninc.com> wrote:
I think you oversubscribed... 10,000 to 1 seems a bit steep.
On 07/18/2014 06:42 AM, Toney Mareo wrote:
Hello,
I working on a plan about improving/upgrading a Euro-DOCSIS3 based cable network with the following requirements (very briefly):
-20 CMTS-es on different locations needs to be connected to the network All of these locations currently connecting to the internet through 1Gbit/s link through a single internet provider, I have to upgrade them to be able to connect to at least 2 but ideally 3 ISPs at the same time and use their links for failover (do bgp peering as well).
What type of *budget* routers would you recommend to use for this purpose if cisco is not an option (the company doesn't want to buy cisco equipment)? If you can please give me exact model numbers.
The company has over 35K customers at the moment which use various cable modems on different areas (docsis1-3). In the future this network has to be able to provide, max 240Mb download/30 Mb upload speed per customer.
I also have to give them a proposal about what type of docsis3 cable modems should they buy in the future. And in addition they need some ABR video streaming solution.
I know it's a very brief statement and I left out a lot details, so any hw suggestions are more than welcome.
Have a nice day folks!
--
Christopher Thompson | Client Care | SolutionInc Limited Office: +1.902.420-0077 | Fax: +1.902.420.0233
Email: chris.thompson@solutioninc.com Website: www.solutioninc.com <http://www.solutioninc.com/>
SolutionInc Limited - Simplifying Internet Access
SolutionInc Limited - Simplifying Internet Access With operations in more than 45 countries worldwide, SolutionInc is an established global leader in Internet, centralized hotspot connectivity, billing and management solutions. SolutionInc provides software and services to the hospitality and telecommunications industries through its award-winning, patented technology software products: SolutionIP(tm) and SolutionIP(tm) Enterprise. Through 700,000+ touch points, SolutionIP(tm) allows people to easily and securely connect to the Internet from locations such as hotel rooms, convention centres, universities, restaurants and airports. Patent Information < http://www.solutioninc.com/patents/>
If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately at 902 420 0077 or reply by e-mail to the sender and destroy the original communication.
Thank you.
Thanks for sharing Ben, that's 450 kbps/sub at peak times! We see numbers in our network closer to 300 kbps per subscriber. Assuming peak usage levels of 450 kbs/sub, that would be 15.75 Gbps for Toney's customer base, and possibly more if they really have a 240 Mbps offerings. But if there are 20 locations then it's an average of 787.5 Mbps per location. If each site had a 10 Gbps interface (with 1 or 2 Gbps of transport), then the core location should peer/buy transit with at least two ISPs over four 10G interfaces. That way if one ISP/interface falls away there's still sufficient capacity. We weren't told the geographical disparity of these 20 locations, but it may be wiser for each location to peer/buy transit to two or more disparate POPs rather than home them to one core location which has more single points of failure. Frank -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Ben Hatton Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 7:51 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Cable Company Network Upgrade I don't think there are any 'budget' routers that would move the amount of data you are looking at trying to do. 35k subs @ 240Mb is 8.4Tb/s at 100% utilization, even at a somewhat high 100:1 oversubsctiption you are looking at over 80Gb/s While our DOCSIS network is only 4000 subs, we peak at around 1.8gb/s on 10Mb packages, while oversubscription can increase with higher speed packages, as many users would never use that much bandwidth, some will, and even 1% of your customer base capping out a 240Mb would take most of a 10Gb pipe, and you still would have 34000 other subs to handle. I can't see offering 240Mb service to over 35k subs on anything less than a 100g core, and even that would be pushing it. Ben Hatton Network Engineer Haefele TV On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Chris R. Thompson < chris.thompson@solutioninc.com> wrote:
I think you oversubscribed... 10,000 to 1 seems a bit steep.
On 07/18/2014 06:42 AM, Toney Mareo wrote:
Hello,
I working on a plan about improving/upgrading a Euro-DOCSIS3 based cable network with the following requirements (very briefly):
-20 CMTS-es on different locations needs to be connected to the network All of these locations currently connecting to the internet through 1Gbit/s link through a single internet provider, I have to upgrade them to be able to connect to at least 2 but ideally 3 ISPs at the same time and use their links for failover (do bgp peering as well).
What type of *budget* routers would you recommend to use for this purpose if cisco is not an option (the company doesn't want to buy cisco equipment)? If you can please give me exact model numbers.
The company has over 35K customers at the moment which use various cable modems on different areas (docsis1-3). In the future this network has to be able to provide, max 240Mb download/30 Mb upload speed per customer.
I also have to give them a proposal about what type of docsis3 cable modems should they buy in the future. And in addition they need some ABR video streaming solution.
I know it's a very brief statement and I left out a lot details, so any hw suggestions are more than welcome.
Have a nice day folks!
--
Christopher Thompson | Client Care | SolutionInc Limited Office: +1.902.420-0077 | Fax: +1.902.420.0233
Email: chris.thompson@solutioninc.com Website: www.solutioninc.com <http://www.solutioninc.com/>
SolutionInc Limited - Simplifying Internet Access
SolutionInc Limited - Simplifying Internet Access With operations in more than 45 countries worldwide, SolutionInc is an established global leader in Internet, centralized hotspot connectivity, billing and management solutions. SolutionInc provides software and services to the hospitality and telecommunications industries through its award-winning, patented technology software products: SolutionIP(tm) and SolutionIP(tm) Enterprise. Through 700,000+ touch points, SolutionIP(tm) allows people to easily and securely connect to the Internet from locations such as hotel rooms, convention centres, universities, restaurants and airports. Patent Information < http://www.solutioninc.com/patents/>
If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately at 902 420 0077 or reply by e-mail to the sender and destroy the original communication.
Thank you.
Instead of over subscription ratios think about what each user is doing. Let's say one 1080p Netflix stream per customer, that's 6 mbps each. Perhaps provision for that and you'll have plenty. On 20/07/2014 11:06 AM, "Frank Bulk" <frnkblk@iname.com> wrote:
Thanks for sharing Ben, that's 450 kbps/sub at peak times! We see numbers in our network closer to 300 kbps per subscriber.
Assuming peak usage levels of 450 kbs/sub, that would be 15.75 Gbps for Toney's customer base, and possibly more if they really have a 240 Mbps offerings. But if there are 20 locations then it's an average of 787.5 Mbps per location. If each site had a 10 Gbps interface (with 1 or 2 Gbps of transport), then the core location should peer/buy transit with at least two ISPs over four 10G interfaces. That way if one ISP/interface falls away there's still sufficient capacity.
We weren't told the geographical disparity of these 20 locations, but it may be wiser for each location to peer/buy transit to two or more disparate POPs rather than home them to one core location which has more single points of failure.
Frank
-----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Ben Hatton Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 7:51 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Cable Company Network Upgrade
I don't think there are any 'budget' routers that would move the amount of data you are looking at trying to do.
35k subs @ 240Mb is 8.4Tb/s at 100% utilization, even at a somewhat high 100:1 oversubsctiption you are looking at over 80Gb/s
While our DOCSIS network is only 4000 subs, we peak at around 1.8gb/s on 10Mb packages, while oversubscription can increase with higher speed packages, as many users would never use that much bandwidth, some will, and even 1% of your customer base capping out a 240Mb would take most of a 10Gb pipe, and you still would have 34000 other subs to handle.
I can't see offering 240Mb service to over 35k subs on anything less than a 100g core, and even that would be pushing it.
Ben Hatton Network Engineer Haefele TV
On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Chris R. Thompson < chris.thompson@solutioninc.com> wrote:
I think you oversubscribed... 10,000 to 1 seems a bit steep.
On 07/18/2014 06:42 AM, Toney Mareo wrote:
Hello,
I working on a plan about improving/upgrading a Euro-DOCSIS3 based cable network with the following requirements (very briefly):
-20 CMTS-es on different locations needs to be connected to the network All of these locations currently connecting to the internet through 1Gbit/s link through a single internet provider, I have to upgrade them to be able to connect to at least 2 but ideally 3 ISPs at the same time and use their links for failover (do bgp peering as well).
What type of *budget* routers would you recommend to use for this purpose if cisco is not an option (the company doesn't want to buy cisco equipment)? If you can please give me exact model numbers.
The company has over 35K customers at the moment which use various cable modems on different areas (docsis1-3). In the future this network has to be able to provide, max 240Mb download/30 Mb upload speed per customer.
I also have to give them a proposal about what type of docsis3 cable modems should they buy in the future. And in addition they need some ABR video streaming solution.
I know it's a very brief statement and I left out a lot details, so any hw suggestions are more than welcome.
Have a nice day folks!
--
Christopher Thompson | Client Care | SolutionInc Limited Office: +1.902.420-0077 | Fax: +1.902.420.0233
Email: chris.thompson@solutioninc.com Website: www.solutioninc.com <http://www.solutioninc.com/>
SolutionInc Limited - Simplifying Internet Access
SolutionInc Limited - Simplifying Internet Access With operations in more than 45 countries worldwide, SolutionInc is an established global leader in Internet, centralized hotspot connectivity, billing and management solutions. SolutionInc provides software and services to the hospitality and telecommunications industries through its award-winning, patented technology software products: SolutionIP(tm) and SolutionIP(tm) Enterprise. Through 700,000+ touch points, SolutionIP(tm) allows people to easily and securely connect to the Internet from locations such as hotel rooms, convention centres, universities, restaurants and airports. Patent Information < http://www.solutioninc.com/patents/>
If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately at 902 420 0077 or reply by e-mail to the sender and destroy the original communication.
Thank you.
Hello Thanks for the useful tips.
We weren't told the geographical disparity of these 20 locations, but it may be wiser for each location to peer/buy transit to two or more disparate POPs rather than home them to one core location which has more single points of failure.
The farest node is at 94kms, the closest to the central is 11kms but they are just like as you said distributed right now. Not all the traffic going through their HQ and I want to keep it this way. In this case I think 100gps routers are overkill. I just need to give them some recommendation for switches/routers for these edge nodes where the CMTS-es are located which are able to connect to 2-3 different ISPs. For now I recommended HP MSR50 Modular Router, but if you know any better price/category please let me know. I think the best choice are these modular routers, because ISPs might have different connections at different nodes like 1Gb fiber, 10Gb fiber. Also if anybody could recommend ABR (Adaptive bitrate streaming) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptive_bitrate_streaming equipment for this size of network, that would be great. Thanks! Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2014 at 1:04 AM From: "Frank Bulk" <frnkblk@iname.com> To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: Cable Company Network Upgrade Thanks for sharing Ben, that's 450 kbps/sub at peak times! We see numbers in our network closer to 300 kbps per subscriber. Assuming peak usage levels of 450 kbs/sub, that would be 15.75 Gbps for Toney's customer base, and possibly more if they really have a 240 Mbps offerings. But if there are 20 locations then it's an average of 787.5 Mbps per location. If each site had a 10 Gbps interface (with 1 or 2 Gbps of transport), then the core location should peer/buy transit with at least two ISPs over four 10G interfaces. That way if one ISP/interface falls away there's still sufficient capacity. We weren't told the geographical disparity of these 20 locations, but it may be wiser for each location to peer/buy transit to two or more disparate POPs rather than home them to one core location which has more single points of failure. Frank -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Ben Hatton Sent: Friday, July 18, 2014 7:51 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Cable Company Network Upgrade I don't think there are any 'budget' routers that would move the amount of data you are looking at trying to do. 35k subs @ 240Mb is 8.4Tb/s at 100% utilization, even at a somewhat high 100:1 oversubsctiption you are looking at over 80Gb/s While our DOCSIS network is only 4000 subs, we peak at around 1.8gb/s on 10Mb packages, while oversubscription can increase with higher speed packages, as many users would never use that much bandwidth, some will, and even 1% of your customer base capping out a 240Mb would take most of a 10Gb pipe, and you still would have 34000 other subs to handle. I can't see offering 240Mb service to over 35k subs on anything less than a 100g core, and even that would be pushing it. Ben Hatton Network Engineer Haefele TV On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Chris R. Thompson < chris.thompson@solutioninc.com> wrote:
I think you oversubscribed... 10,000 to 1 seems a bit steep.
On 07/18/2014 06:42 AM, Toney Mareo wrote:
Hello,
I working on a plan about improving/upgrading a Euro-DOCSIS3 based cable network with the following requirements (very briefly):
-20 CMTS-es on different locations needs to be connected to the network All of these locations currently connecting to the internet through 1Gbit/s link through a single internet provider, I have to upgrade them to be able to connect to at least 2 but ideally 3 ISPs at the same time and use their links for failover (do bgp peering as well).
What type of *budget* routers would you recommend to use for this purpose if cisco is not an option (the company doesn't want to buy cisco equipment)? If you can please give me exact model numbers.
The company has over 35K customers at the moment which use various cable modems on different areas (docsis1-3). In the future this network has to be able to provide, max 240Mb download/30 Mb upload speed per customer.
I also have to give them a proposal about what type of docsis3 cable modems should they buy in the future. And in addition they need some ABR video streaming solution.
I know it's a very brief statement and I left out a lot details, so any hw suggestions are more than welcome.
Have a nice day folks!
--
Christopher Thompson | Client Care | SolutionInc Limited Office: +1.902.420-0077 | Fax: +1.902.420.0233
Email: chris.thompson@solutioninc.com Website: www.solutioninc.com[http://www.solutioninc.com] <http://www.solutioninc.com/[http://www.solutioninc.com/]>
SolutionInc Limited - Simplifying Internet Access
SolutionInc Limited - Simplifying Internet Access With operations in more than 45 countries worldwide, SolutionInc is an established global leader in Internet, centralized hotspot connectivity, billing and management solutions. SolutionInc provides software and services to the hospitality and telecommunications industries through its award-winning, patented technology software products: SolutionIP(tm) and SolutionIP(tm) Enterprise. Through 700,000+ touch points, SolutionIP(tm) allows people to easily and securely connect to the Internet from locations such as hotel rooms, convention centres, universities, restaurants and airports. Patent Information < http://www.solutioninc.com/patents/[http://www.solutioninc.com/patents/]>
If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately at 902 420 0077 or reply by e-mail to the sender and destroy the original communication.
Thank you.
participants (5)
-
Ben Hatton -
Chris R. Thompson -
Frank Bulk -
mcfbbqroast . -
Toney Mareo