_please reply offlist_ i've sent some time (at least 20 minutes) considering that while there are forums for operators and engineers to discuss issues (nanog, ietf, others too numerous to mention), there aren't really forums for informed consumers of internet services to exchange notes (or for uninformed consumers to become informed.) if anyone knows of such, please let me know. otherwise, i'm considering starting an unmoderated but carefully monitored mailing list for business oriented discussion from the viewpoint of consumers. i'd probably want to tie this in with the development of FAQs and tutorials targeted at business consumers of internet services. again, comments offlist, please. richard -- Richard Welty rwelty@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking 518-573-7592 Java, PHP, PostgreSQL, Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security
On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:06:22 EDT, Richard Welty <rwelty@averillpark.net> said:
i've sent some time (at least 20 minutes) considering that while there are forums for operators and engineers to discuss issues (nanog, ietf, others too numerous to mention), there aren't really forums for informed consumers of internet services to exchange notes (or for uninformed consumers to become informed.)
There used to be Usenet, but then the spammers found it. Remember that Nanog probably has *significant* market penetration - I'll hazard a guess that at least 40-50% of the service providers in the US have at least one person lurking here. Now consider the number of consumers of network services in the US, and estimate what a 1% market penetration would be. Ask yourself: How do I keep spammers out of a group that size? And if I don't reach that size, what good am I really doing?
Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:06:22 EDT, Richard Welty <rwelty@averillpark.net> said:
i've sent some time (at least 20 minutes) considering that while there are forums for operators and engineers to discuss issues (nanog, ietf, others too numerous to mention), there aren't really forums for informed consumers of internet services to exchange notes (or for uninformed consumers to become informed.)
There used to be Usenet, but then the spammers found it.
Remember that Nanog probably has *significant* market penetration - I'll hazard a guess that at least 40-50% of the service providers in the US have at least one person lurking here. Now consider the number of consumers of network services in the US, and estimate what a 1% market penetration would be.
Ask yourself: How do I keep spammers out of a group that size? And if I don't reach that size, what good am I really doing?
Ask yourself (in addition): How is this useful to business users? I would think that either businesses are small enough that they depend on someone else for information of this sort, or large enough that they have multiple listening presences on NANOG. What is a business user? Spammers, after all, are a business. Do you mean them? MSN is a business. Do you mean them? Am I a business (you don't know the answer to that, trust me)? Do I represent one (you don't know the answer to that one, either)? Outside of a gripe list, what purpose(s) will this server? There used to be *.advocacy.* groups, alt.fan.* groups, *.discuss groups, all on usenet (as Valdis has already pointed out). They were all nice for letting off steam, but they were never really useful in any meaningful way. If this is just a place where you can discuss things that are not really on charter for NANOG, it seems like there are already a bunch of places to do that. Personally, I don't see that there's a raging desire by the consumers of packets to find some place to talk outside of the places already there. It sounds like you have a solution looking for a problem. There is no such thing as "informed consumers of internet services," at least not in any reality I inhabit. YMMV, HTH, HAND. USENET: *sob* I miss usenet. :-( -- When you wish to instruct be brief -- so that people's minds can quickly grasp what you have to say, understand your point, and retain it accurately. Unnecessary words just spill over the side of a mind already crammed to the full. (Cicero)
On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:01:49 PDT, Etaoin Shrdlu <shrdlu@deaddrop.org> said:
Do you mean them? Am I a business (you don't know the answer to that, trust me)? Do I represent one (you don't know the answer to that one, either)?
Heck, some days I don't even know if *I* am a business or not. We get to straddle the line between "IT/networking for a $400M/yr organization" and "ISP for 30-80K users" (depending how you count) and a few other things.
sounds like you have a solution looking for a problem. There is no such thing as "informed consumers of internet services," at least not in any reality I inhabit. YMMV, HTH, HAND.
A case could be made that the lack of such informed consumers is part of the reason we're having the concurrent "block all servers" thread. On the other hand, a forum isn't the solution there. We collectively decided that letting unclued Joe Sixpack get connected for $19.95/mo was a good idea, and we're stuck with it (though if anybody gets a workable way to charge $24.95/mo for a "premier secure" filtered service I'll not fight it unless they flagrantly break truth-in-advertising laws. ;)
participants (3)
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Etaoin Shrdlu -
Richard Welty -
Valdis.Kletnieks＠vt.edu