Net admins are bored Nanog lists run wild Useless spam blows up phone :) -r -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Lyon [mailto:jeffrey.lyon@blacklotus.net] Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 12:48 PM To: Murphy, Jay, DOH Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Cogent Haiku v2.0 The XO version: XO is low cost The cabinets had no power Service was useless Jeff On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Murphy, Jay, DOH <Jay.Murphy@state.nm.us> wrote:

NANOG is too cool. Rhyming with net engineers. Poet don't know it.

Jay Murphy IP Network Specialist NM Department of Health ITSD - IP Network Operations Santa Fe, New Mexico 87502 Bus. Ph.: 505.827.2851

"We move the information that moves your world."

-----Original Message----- From: neal rauhauser [mailto:nrauhauser@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 7:59 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Cogent Haiku v2.0

Cogent makes a mess My phone rings and rings Unfornicate this!

______________________________________________________________________ This inbound email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. ______________________________________________________________________

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-- Jeffrey Lyon, Leadership Team jeffrey.lyon@blacklotus.net | http://www.blacklotus.net Black Lotus Communications of The IRC Company, Inc. Look for us at HostingCon 2009 in Washington, DC on August 10th - 12th at Booth #401.

good stuff Jay Murphy IP Network Specialist NM Department of Health ITSD - IP Network Operations Santa Fe, New Mexico 87502 Bus. Ph.: 505.827.2851 "We move the information that moves your world." -----Original Message----- From: Darryl Dunkin [mailto:ddunkin@netos.net] Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 10:50 AM To: Murphy, Jay, DOH; neal rauhauser; nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: Cogent Haiku v2.0 Customers thank me I will not stoop much lower Pay dirt for transit -----Original Message----- From: Murphy, Jay, DOH [mailto:Jay.Murphy@state.nm.us] Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 09:41 To: neal rauhauser; nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: Cogent Haiku v2.0 NANOG is too cool. Rhyming with net engineers. Poet don't know it. Jay Murphy IP Network Specialist NM Department of Health ITSD - IP Network Operations Santa Fe, New Mexico 87502 Bus. Ph.: 505.827.2851 "We move the information that moves your world." -----Original Message----- From: neal rauhauser [mailto:nrauhauser@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 7:59 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Cogent Haiku v2.0 Cogent makes a mess My phone rings and rings Unfornicate this! ______________________________________________________________________ This inbound email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. ______________________________________________________________________ Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including all attachments is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited unless specifically provided under the New Mexico Inspection of Public Records Act. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of this message. -- This email has been scanned by the Sybari - Antigen Email System. ______________________________________________________________________ This inbound email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. ______________________________________________________________________ Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including all attachments is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited unless specifically provided under the New Mexico Inspection of Public Records Act. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of this message. -- This email has been scanned by the Sybari - Antigen Email System.

All... Please stop this off-topic WOB. -- Randy. Josh Potter wrote:

Cisco 7k nodes Cascading VIP card failures Reload the router

On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Darryl Dunkin <ddunkin@netos.net> wrote:

...

Customers thank me I will not stoop much lower Pay dirt for transit

-----Original Message----- From: Murphy, Jay, DOH [mailto:Jay.Murphy@state.nm.us] Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 09:41 To: neal rauhauser; nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: Cogent Haiku v2.0

NANOG is too cool. Rhyming with net engineers. Poet don't know it.

Jay Murphy IP Network Specialist NM Department of Health ITSD - IP Network Operations Santa Fe, New Mexico 87502 Bus. Ph.: 505.827.2851

"We move the information that moves your world."

-----Original Message----- From: neal rauhauser [mailto:nrauhauser@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 7:59 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Cogent Haiku v2.0

Cogent makes a mess My phone rings and rings Unfornicate this!

______________________________________________________________________ This inbound email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. ______________________________________________________________________

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including all attachments is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited unless specifically provided under the New Mexico Inspection of Public Records Act. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of this message. -- This email has been scanned by the Sybari - Antigen Email System.

NANOG has admins They waste a lot of time now Maybe paid to much -----Original Message----- From: Murphy, Jay, DOH [mailto:Jay.Murphy@state.nm.us] Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 11:57 AM To: Mike Bartz; neal rauhauser Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: Cogent Haiku v2.0 Level 3 has gear. Bleeding edge technology. Get huge pipes right now. Jay Murphy IP Network Specialist NM Department of Health ITSD - IP Network Operations Santa Fe, New Mexico 87502 Bus. Ph.: 505.827.2851 "We move the information that moves your world." -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartz [mailto:mob@bartzfamily.net] Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 10:54 AM To: neal rauhauser Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Cogent Haiku v2.0 I like the haiku! On a serious note, we are considering getting a connection from Cogent. We currently have connections to at&t, Level 3 and TW Telecom. The low cost and high number of peer AS number's seems appealing to us. Every carrier has its issues, so I don't know what to make of the apparent negativity that I am seeing in these haiku threads. I am looking for some first hand experiences to help me make this decision. Thanks for any assistance! Mike On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 9:59 PM, neal rauhauser <nrauhauser@gmail.com> wrote:

Cogent makes a mess My phone rings and rings Unfornicate this!

-- Mike Bartz mob@bartzfamily.net ______________________________________________________________________ This inbound email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. ______________________________________________________________________ Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including all attachments is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited unless specifically provided under the New Mexico Inspection of Public Records Act. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of this message. -- This email has been scanned by the Sybari - Antigen Email System.

Jeffrey Lyon wrote:

Mike,

Aside from the occasional peering wars i've never had or witnessed any serious issues with Cogent. If you want some redundancy you might also try some other similarly priced providers like WBS Connect, HE, or BtN.

I can second that. For the amount of money they charge, you get a very good deal and their techs are competent. However, due to peering wars, never rely on them alone. Any decent ISP should anyway at least have connections from n+1 carriers. Kind regards, Martin List-Petersen

Best regards, Jeff

On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 12:54 PM, Mike Bartz <mob@bartzfamily.net> wrote:

...

I like the haiku! On a serious note, we are considering getting a connection from Cogent. We currently have connections to at&t, Level 3 and TW Telecom. The low cost and high number of peer AS number's seems appealing to us. Every carrier has its issues, so I don't know what to make of the apparent negativity that I am seeing in these haiku threads. I am looking for some first hand experiences to help me make this decision.

Thanks for any assistance!

Mike

On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 9:59 PM, neal rauhauser <nrauhauser@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Cogent makes a mess My phone rings and rings Unfornicate this!

-- Mike Bartz mob@bartzfamily.net

-- Airwire - Ag Nascadh Pobal an Iarthar http://www.airwire.ie Phone: 091-865 968

Jeffrey Lyon wrote:

Mike,

Aside from the occasional peering wars i've never had or witnessed any serious issues with Cogent. If you want some redundancy you might also try some other similarly priced providers like WBS Connect, HE, or BtN.

(resend due to subject filter) Plus if you had direct connectivity to Cogent, their peering status with others wouldn't affect you anymore. Personally, I've seriously considered this as a reason to get a connection from Cogent. ~Seth

joe mcguckin wrote:

So, you're essentially getting paid peering from Cogent then ?

I guess you could do that. Normally I'd just throw it in the mix with the rest and let BGP figure it out if there's another depeering. ~Seth

On Jan 12, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote:

On Jan 12, 2009, at 1:17 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

...

Jeffrey Lyon wrote:

...

Mike, Aside from the occasional peering wars i've never had or witnessed any serious issues with Cogent. If you want some redundancy you might also try some other similarly priced providers like WBS Connect, HE, or BtN.

(resend due to subject filter)

Plus if you had direct connectivity to Cogent, their peering status with others wouldn't affect you anymore. Personally, I've seriously considered this as a reason to get a connection from Cogent.

If you are not single-homed, you have no issues reaching Cogent even during a "peering war" - unless Cogent depeers / gets depeered from - both- (all) of your upstreams at the same time. So what value is there to add Cogent?

If you are not single-homed, then reaching Cogent is not even close to your only problem.

s/not// Sorry for confusion. -- TTFN, patrick

On Jan 12, 2009, at 2:53 PM, Martin List-Petersen wrote:

Patrick W. Gilmore wrote:

...

On Jan 12, 2009, at 1:17 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

...

Jeffrey Lyon wrote:

...

Mike, Aside from the occasional peering wars i've never had or witnessed any serious issues with Cogent. If you want some redundancy you might also try some other similarly priced providers like WBS Connect, HE, or BtN.

(resend due to subject filter)

Plus if you had direct connectivity to Cogent, their peering status with others wouldn't affect you anymore. Personally, I've seriously considered this as a reason to get a connection from Cogent.

If you are not single-homed, you have no issues reaching Cogent even during a "peering war" - unless Cogent depeers / gets depeered from -both- (all) of your upstreams at the same time. So what value is there to add Cogent?

The value is, that Cogent pretty much is the cheapest transit you can get out there vs. paying a premium for carriers that have less clue and more outages.

Sorry for being imprecise. I meant that adding Cogent does not significantly improve your reachability. Choosing to buy from Cogent because they depeer / get depeered occasionally is silly, IMHO. To be clear, I am making no comment on Cogent's overall performance. If you find value in adding a provider for other reasons (cost, performance, etc.), I would not argue against it. -- TTFN, patrick

The main problem I see is peering wars and a lack of diversity, we have seen a couple incidents where they have dropped all or part of their connectivity to our market (seattle), during the latter they had major packet-loss which was frankly more annoying than them being down... Issues also tend to be a tad more frequent than other providers but on the whole, really not that bad. We basically use cogent as private peering to reach their customers. Operationally the incredibly annoying part is their helpdesk-style attitude towards prefix-lists, if you have a few prefixes this is no big deal but if you are like us and have 30+ downstream ASNs it can get annoying to repetadily explain to techs who don't get it why you need to have them add more routes, do le 24 matching (to limit the number of times we call) or to increase their max-prefix limit. If they were not so cheap I would cancel them just due to the lack of RADB support but at least they have no uRPF filters so I have taken to just doing batch prefix-list updates with them every few months as my sanity-saving solution. John van Oppen Spectrum Networks LLC Direct: 206.973.8302 Main: 206.973.8300 Website: http://spectrumnetworks.us -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Lyon [mailto:jeffrey.lyon@blacklotus.net] Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 10:02 AM To: Mike Bartz Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Cogent Haiku v2.0 Mike, Aside from the occasional peering wars i've never had or witnessed any serious issues with Cogent. If you want some redundancy you might also try some other similarly priced providers like WBS Connect, HE, or BtN. Best regards, Jeff On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 12:54 PM, Mike Bartz <mob@bartzfamily.net> wrote:

I like the haiku! On a serious note, we are considering getting a connection from Cogent. We currently have connections to at&t, Level 3 and TW Telecom. The low cost and high number of peer AS number's seems appealing to us. Every carrier has its issues, so I don't know what to make of the apparent negativity that I am seeing in these haiku threads. I am looking for some first hand experiences to help me make this decision.

Thanks for any assistance!

Mike

On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 9:59 PM, neal rauhauser <nrauhauser@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Cogent makes a mess My phone rings and rings Unfornicate this!

-- Mike Bartz mob@bartzfamily.net

-- Jeffrey Lyon, Leadership Team jeffrey.lyon@blacklotus.net | http://www.blacklotus.net Black Lotus Communications of The IRC Company, Inc. Look for us at HostingCon 2009 in Washington, DC on August 10th - 12th at Booth #401.

Adam Young wrote:

I wouldn't take my word for it but truthfully, you get what you pay for. Given you have other, more reliable transit, adding Cogent may be ok. I wouldn't rely on it for anything serious though.

That has not been my experience. Peering wars have been an issue, but aside from that, they've been fine. (This is transit in San Francisco at the gigabit-plus level.) Jim Shankland

We peer with Cogent. They are very competitive in terms of pricing. To be honest, Cogent has been pretty good to us. As long as you have a 2nd peer (which it sounds like you do) for backup I'd say they're a pretty safe bet. The only problem I've had with Cogent is that they're still not ready to route IPv6. The whole "you get what you pay for" talk is nonsense in my book, you're paying top dollar with places like Sprint because they use the income to subsidize their other efforts that are taking a loss. Ray Soucy Communications Specialist +1 (207) 561-3526 Communications and Network Services University of Maine System http://www.maine.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartz [mailto:mob@bartzfamily.net] Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 12:54 PM To: neal rauhauser Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Cogent Haiku v2.0 I like the haiku! On a serious note, we are considering getting a connection from Cogent. We currently have connections to at&t, Level 3 and TW Telecom. The low cost and high number of peer AS number's seems appealing to us. Every carrier has its issues, so I don't know what to make of the apparent negativity that I am seeing in these haiku threads. I am looking for some first hand experiences to help me make this decision. Thanks for any assistance! Mike On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 9:59 PM, neal rauhauser <nrauhauser@gmail.com> wrote:

Cogent makes a mess My phone rings and rings Unfornicate this!

-- Mike Bartz mob@bartzfamily.net

Patrick W. Gilmore wrote:

On Jan 12, 2009, at 1:58 PM, Soucy, Ray wrote:

...

We peer with Cogent. They are very competitive in terms of pricing. To be honest, Cogent has been pretty good to us. As long as you have a 2nd peer (which it sounds like you do) for backup I'd say they're a pretty safe bet.

I think you mean s/peer/transit.

Perhaps he is running PPP, and meant peer. :P http://www.freesoft.org/CIE/RFC/1661/3.htm Obviously he's paying for transit with his peer, which is still technically a peering agreement; just not a free one. ;)