Moreover, if IPSEC is in use, you can't even sniff.

With IPSEC you infer things from traffic analysis. Or if you don't feel like doing grevious harm to IPSEC, you block the traffic and wait to see who complains. Many telephone companies do this type of blocking to control fraud on international calls. Your calling card will suddenly just stop working. You'll call up your communications provider, and while usually acting totally clueless, they'll re-enable your calling card. Most of the time, the spikes in traffic are fairly obvious. People share the 'secret' with their friends and like hogs at the trough they can never use it just a little. -- Sean Donelan, Data Research Associates, Inc, St. Louis, MO Affiliation given for identification not representation