Hi, I'm wondering how different organisations structure their 24x7 network operations? We are undergoing some restructuring here and it would be interesting for us to know how other large enterprises and service providers arrange this. We are particulary interested in service providers. (Currently we have an enterprise that is slowly morphing into more of a service provider setup). I'll summarise back to the list, after removing any identifying details. These questions specifically refer to network staff, as opposed to any general Ops team. Do you have 24x7 staff on site? What level of technical ability do the on-site staff have? What shift patterns do the 24x7 staff use? Do you have a response time for on-call staff, by which time they must be VPN'ed into the network? What level of techincal ability do the first line on-call staff have? Do you have an official escalation system if the first-line on-call staff do not have the required techincal ability? Do the staff on on-call escalation have a required response time, by which time they must be VPN'ed into the network? Do the staff on on-call escalation rota the on-call responsibilities? Do the on-call staff receive additional benefits or compensation for being on-call?
All, Thanks for the replies that have started rolling in. They've made me realise I should have added an additional question for clarity. Does anyone have any CCIE (or equivalent technical ability) staff on a 24x7 shift? What about CCIE level staff on an on-call rota with a garanteed response time? How about CCNP? If people could also give an identication of the size of their organisation/network it would be useful. Sam Sam Stickland wrote:
Hi,
I'm wondering how different organisations structure their 24x7 network operations? We are undergoing some restructuring here and it would be interesting for us to know how other large enterprises and service providers arrange this. We are particulary interested in service providers. (Currently we have an enterprise that is slowly morphing into more of a service provider setup). I'll summarise back to the list, after removing any identifying details.
These questions specifically refer to network staff, as opposed to any general Ops team.
Do you have 24x7 staff on site? What level of technical ability do the on-site staff have? What shift patterns do the 24x7 staff use?
Do you have a response time for on-call staff, by which time they must be VPN'ed into the network? What level of techincal ability do the first line on-call staff have? Do you have an official escalation system if the first-line on-call staff do not have the required techincal ability? Do the staff on on-call escalation have a required response time, by which time they must be VPN'ed into the network? Do the staff on on-call escalation rota the on-call responsibilities? Do the on-call staff receive additional benefits or compensation for being on-call?
This topic interests me very much, and I had a BOF about staff development at the Montreal meeting in 1999. I remember some of the details, and, while I am no longer generally doing course development, I have some pretty strong ideas of what reasonably constitutes a proper training sandbox for a major ISP. If anyone would like to discuss this, pleae feel free to contact me offline. If there's a use for a separate mailing list or summaries to NANOG, I'd be happy to try to organize it. -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Sam Stickland Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 5:33 AM Cc: NANOG list Subject: Re: 24x7 Support Strategies All, Thanks for the replies that have started rolling in. They've made me realise I should have added an additional question for clarity. Does anyone have any CCIE (or equivalent technical ability) staff on a 24x7 shift? What about CCIE level staff on an on-call rota with a garanteed response time? How about CCNP? If people could also give an identication of the size of their organisation/network it would be useful. Sam Sam Stickland wrote:
Hi,
I'm wondering how different organisations structure their 24x7 network operations? We are undergoing some restructuring here and it would be interesting for us to know how other large enterprises and service providers arrange this. We are particulary interested in service providers. (Currently we have an enterprise that is slowly morphing into more of a service provider setup). I'll summarise back to the list, after removing any identifying details.
These questions specifically refer to network staff, as opposed to any general Ops team.
Do you have 24x7 staff on site? What level of technical ability do the on-site staff have? What shift patterns do the 24x7 staff use?
Do you have a response time for on-call staff, by which time they must be VPN'ed into the network? What level of techincal ability do the first line on-call staff have? Do you have an official escalation system if the first-line on-call staff do not have the required techincal ability? Do the staff on on-call escalation have a required response time, by which time they must be VPN'ed into the network? Do the staff on on-call escalation rota the on-call responsibilities? Do the on-call staff receive additional benefits or compensation for being on-call?
On 14-Jun-2007, at 02:32, Sam Stickland wrote:
Does anyone have any CCIE (or equivalent technical ability) staff on a 24x7 shift? What about CCIE level staff on an on-call rota with a garanteed response time? How about CCNP?
Does anybody actually put any stock in the presence or absence of vendor certifications on a resume when judging the capabilities of an engineer? There's no correlation between certification and capability, in my experience. Joe
I doubt it maybe training companies! A number of vendors have grades to meet. So X number of certified experts mean better deals from said vendor. Regards, Neil.
Does anybody actually put any stock in the presence or absence of vendor certifications on a resume when judging the capabilities of an engineer?
There's no correlation between certification and capability, in my experience.
Even my recent experience says no here. I had a CCIE (written..!) in for an interview and, well, I am not sure how he managed to get CCIE written but he sure as hell didn't know much. There are some useful qualifications for ISP potential employees that the LINX provide in conjunction with some training companies, these are good for NOC or junior engineers but at the end of the routing table there's no substitute for getting people who have had a few years to screw up other people's networks and learn what not to do.. -- Leigh Neil J. McRae wrote:
I doubt it maybe training companies!
A number of vendors have grades to meet. So X number of certified experts mean better deals from said vendor.
Regards, Neil.
Does anybody actually put any stock in the presence or absence of vendor certifications on a resume when judging the capabilities of an engineer?
There's no correlation between certification and capability, in my experience.
On Thu, 2007-06-14 at 12:57 +0100, Leigh Porter wrote:
Even my recent experience says no here. I had a CCIE (written..!) in for an interview and, well, I am not sure how he managed to get CCIE written but he sure as hell didn't know much.
There is no such thing as a "CCIE (written)". That would be kind of like PhD ABD (All But Dissertation), but without the coursework, too. -- Daniel J McDonald, CCIE # 2495, CISSP # 78281, CNX Austin Energy http://www.austinenergy.com
Daniel J McDonald wrote:
On Thu, 2007-06-14 at 12:57 +0100, Leigh Porter wrote:
Even my recent experience says no here. I had a CCIE (written..!) in for an interview and, well, I am not sure how he managed to get CCIE written but he sure as hell didn't know much.
There is no such thing as a "CCIE (written)". That would be kind of like PhD ABD (All But Dissertation), but without the coursework, too.
Indeed. I can send you his details if you're looking for somebody :) -- Leigh
Joe Abley wrote:
On 14-Jun-2007, at 02:32, Sam Stickland wrote:
Does anyone have any CCIE (or equivalent technical ability) staff on a 24x7 shift? What about CCIE level staff on an on-call rota with a garanteed response time? How about CCNP?
Does anybody actually put any stock in the presence or absence of vendor certifications on a resume when judging the capabilities of an engineer?
There's no correlation between certification and capability, in my experience.
I fully agree with you Joe, but I needed to quantify the level of technical expertise somehow. I think most people have some kind of a feel for what level we are talking about if we say "equivalent techincal ability to CCIE", even if there are CCIEs out there who are useless ;) S
I find that within 15 mins of any interview I have accurately judged the technical competence of most candidates... Sam Stickland wrote:
Joe Abley wrote:
On 14-Jun-2007, at 02:32, Sam Stickland wrote:
Does anyone have any CCIE (or equivalent technical ability) staff on a 24x7 shift? What about CCIE level staff on an on-call rota with a garanteed response time? How about CCNP?
Does anybody actually put any stock in the presence or absence of vendor certifications on a resume when judging the capabilities of an engineer?
There's no correlation between certification and capability, in my experience.
I fully agree with you Joe, but I needed to quantify the level of technical expertise somehow. I think most people have some kind of a feel for what level we are talking about if we say "equivalent techincal ability to CCIE", even if there are CCIEs out there who are useless ;)
S
Does anybody actually put any stock in the presence or absence of vendor certifications on a resume when judging the capabilities of an engineer?
No stock whatsoever. In fact when we advertise open positions we stress that experience and capability are FAR more important to us than certification.
There's no correlation between certification and capability, in my experience.
Certification is merely a secondary revenue stream for said vendors, period. --chuck
There's no correlation between certification and capability, in my experience.
my experience differs radically. i only know one old dog senior routing engineer on the net who has a vendor diploma [0]. so i would say p ~ 0.99 for the negative hypothesis. randy -- [0] - he had to go out and get it to get a job he later dumped.
People are asking me to port a summary back to the list, but as I'm still getting replies coming in I'm going to leave this until tomorrow. S Sam Stickland wrote:
All,
Thanks for the replies that have started rolling in. They've made me realise I should have added an additional question for clarity.
Does anyone have any CCIE (or equivalent technical ability) staff on a 24x7 shift? What about CCIE level staff on an on-call rota with a garanteed response time? How about CCNP?
If people could also give an identication of the size of their organisation/network it would be useful.
Sam
Sam Stickland wrote:
Hi,
I'm wondering how different organisations structure their 24x7 network operations? We are undergoing some restructuring here and it would be interesting for us to know how other large enterprises and service providers arrange this. We are particulary interested in service providers. (Currently we have an enterprise that is slowly morphing into more of a service provider setup). I'll summarise back to the list, after removing any identifying details.
These questions specifically refer to network staff, as opposed to any general Ops team.
Do you have 24x7 staff on site? What level of technical ability do the on-site staff have? What shift patterns do the 24x7 staff use?
Do you have a response time for on-call staff, by which time they must be VPN'ed into the network? What level of techincal ability do the first line on-call staff have? Do you have an official escalation system if the first-line on-call staff do not have the required techincal ability? Do the staff on on-call escalation have a required response time, by which time they must be VPN'ed into the network? Do the staff on on-call escalation rota the on-call responsibilities? Do the on-call staff receive additional benefits or compensation for being on-call?
participants (8)
-
chuck goolsbee -
Daniel J McDonald -
Howard C. Berkowitz -
Joe Abley -
Leigh Porter -
Neil J. McRae -
Randy Bush -
Sam Stickland