FreeAxez raised flooring?
A consultant has recommended FreeAxez for the raised floor in a new data center. I checked it out and have concerns since it says it does NOT create a plenum and cannot be used as an air handling space; it's a low-profile flooring system. How would cooling be done in this scenario? Open air (with intake/exhaust mixing) seems like a step backwards in terms of efficiency. Descriptions of any operation experience with this product will be gratefully accepted. ~JasonG
What is the purpose of raised flooring if it *doesn't *create a plenum? On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Jason Gurtz <jasongurtz@npumail.com> wrote:
A consultant has recommended FreeAxez for the raised floor in a new data center. I checked it out and have concerns since it says it does NOT create a plenum and cannot be used as an air handling space; it's a low-profile flooring system.
How would cooling be done in this scenario? Open air (with intake/exhaust mixing) seems like a step backwards in terms of efficiency.
Descriptions of any operation experience with this product will be gratefully accepted.
~JasonG
On Fri, 5 Mar 2010, Dorn Hetzel wrote:
What is the purpose of raised flooring if it *doesn't *create a plenum?
...cabling? (though I think working under a floor to route cables vs overhead ladder is a pain..but mixing cabling AND air underfloor is much worse)
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Jason Gurtz <jasongurtz@npumail.com> wrote:
How would cooling be done in this scenario? Open air (with intake/exhaust mixing) seems like a step backwards in terms of efficiency.
The usual methods of overhead (or possibly underfloor if you have enough height) distribution: Ductwork. :) Feed cold air into your cold aisle, and depending on your density and ceiling height use a general hot air return that pulls from the top of the ceiling (likely the same way you're used to seeing it done for most raised floor installs) OR drop additional hot air returns right over your hot aisles. Further hot/cold seperation is entirely possible, too, to support higher densities... Personally I'm not a fan of using raised floor for a cold air plenum for reasons I'm not inclined to go into right now. :) -- david raistrick http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html drais@icantclick.org http://www.expita.com/nomime.html
What is the purpose of raised flooring if it *doesn't *create a plenum?
Cable management, low(er) install costs and high-load bearing capacity. Frankly if you're gonna go with that, you're better off bolting the racks directly to the concrete slab and use Snake Trays for cable management, easier to access. Alex On Fri, Mar 05, 2010 at 11:14:48AM -0500, Dorn Hetzel wrote:
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 11:14:48 -0500 Subject: Re: FreeAxez raised flooring? From: Dorn Hetzel <dhetzel@gmail.com> To: nanog@nanog.org
What is the purpose of raised flooring if it *doesn't *create a plenum?
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Jason Gurtz <jasongurtz@npumail.com> wrote:
A consultant has recommended FreeAxez for the raised floor in a new data center. I checked it out and have concerns since it says it does NOT create a plenum and cannot be used as an air handling space; it's a low-profile flooring system.
How would cooling be done in this scenario? Open air (with intake/exhaust mixing) seems like a step backwards in terms of efficiency.
Descriptions of any operation experience with this product will be gratefully accepted.
~JasonG
< http://serverspecs.blogs.techtarget.com/2007/07/10/data-center-raised-floor-vs-solid-debate/> is an excellent article on the matter. ryan On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 8:38 AM, acv <acv@miniguru.ca> wrote:
What is the purpose of raised flooring if it *doesn't *create a plenum?
Cable management, low(er) install costs and high-load bearing capacity.
Frankly if you're gonna go with that, you're better off bolting the racks directly to the concrete slab and use Snake Trays for cable management, easier to access.
Alex
On Fri, Mar 05, 2010 at 11:14:48AM -0500, Dorn Hetzel wrote:
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 11:14:48 -0500 Subject: Re: FreeAxez raised flooring? From: Dorn Hetzel <dhetzel@gmail.com> To: nanog@nanog.org
What is the purpose of raised flooring if it *doesn't *create a plenum?
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Jason Gurtz <jasongurtz@npumail.com> wrote:
A consultant has recommended FreeAxez for the raised floor in a new data center. I checked it out and have concerns since it says it does NOT create a plenum and cannot be used as an air handling space; it's a low-profile flooring system.
How would cooling be done in this scenario? Open air (with intake/exhaust mixing) seems like a step backwards in terms of efficiency.
Descriptions of any operation experience with this product will be gratefully accepted.
~JasonG
Not sure about the purpose of a raised floor if it doesn't create a plenum, but, the step forward from raised-floor plenum is hot-aisle/cold-aisle which requires a good bit more discipline in your datacenter, but, is substantially more efficient. Owen On Mar 6, 2010, at 12:14 AM, Dorn Hetzel wrote:
What is the purpose of raised flooring if it *doesn't *create a plenum?
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Jason Gurtz <jasongurtz@npumail.com> wrote:
A consultant has recommended FreeAxez for the raised floor in a new data center. I checked it out and have concerns since it says it does NOT create a plenum and cannot be used as an air handling space; it's a low-profile flooring system.
How would cooling be done in this scenario? Open air (with intake/exhaust mixing) seems like a step backwards in terms of efficiency.
Descriptions of any operation experience with this product will be gratefully accepted.
~JasonG
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:
Not sure about the purpose of a raised floor if it doesn't create a plenum, but, the step forward from raised-floor plenum is hot-aisle/cold-aisle which requires a good bit more discipline in your datacenter, but, is substantially more efficient.
Hi Owen, Hot-aisle/cold-aisle is a separate issue from a raised floor plenum. They're mutually supportive but not mutually dependent. Raised floor has pros and cons which make it good or bad depending on the environment. If you haven't yet started implementing hot aisle/cold aisle, on the other hand, you're already the better part of a decade out of date and your equipment is suffering for it. For the original question: Non-plenum short raised floor can be useful if you want to separate your power and data wiring. Other than that, I can't see any advantage versus a solid floor and either snake tray or other overhead wiring systems. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William D. Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. ...................... Web: <http://bill.herrin.us/> Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 1:41 PM, William Herrin <bill@herrin.us> wrote:
For the original question: Non-plenum short raised floor can be useful if you want to separate your power and data wiring. Other than that, I can't see any advantage versus a solid floor and either snake tray or other overhead wiring systems.
Correction: short raised floor is also useful in a general office environment. It allows you to quickly and cleanly reconfigure your cube system. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William D. Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. ...................... Web: <http://bill.herrin.us/> Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
On Fri, Mar 05, 2010 at 01:41:42PM -0500, William Herrin wrote:
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:
Not sure about the purpose of a raised floor if it doesn't create a plenum, but, the step forward from raised-floor plenum is hot-aisle/cold-aisle which requires a good bit more discipline in your datacenter, but, is substantially more efficient.
Hi Owen,
Hot-aisle/cold-aisle is a separate issue from a raised floor plenum. They're mutually supportive but not mutually dependent.
Raised floor has pros and cons which make it good or bad depending on the environment. If you haven't yet started implementing hot aisle/cold aisle, on the other hand, you're already the better part of a decade out of date and your equipment is suffering for it.
For the original question: Non-plenum short raised floor can be useful if you want to separate your power and data wiring. Other than that, I can't see any advantage versus a solid floor and either snake tray or other overhead wiring systems.
Yeah, it made it easier to feed power by running whips instead of conduit and also got the power away from the data lines. The problem with running any wiring under the floor is it always becomes a place to hide the bodies. (Ever looked under a floor that's been there for 20 years?) If you also used it as a cold air plenum, bad wiring and so on also interferes with airflow and people removing tiles or having to cut tiles to get around this or that affects your static pressure and throws your AC off. So these days, I personally favor nothing but air under the floor and strict policies regarding movement of floor tiles. -Wayne --- Wayne Bouchard web@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
On Mar 6, 2010, at 2:41 AM, William Herrin wrote:
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:
Not sure about the purpose of a raised floor if it doesn't create a plenum, but, the step forward from raised-floor plenum is hot-aisle/cold-aisle which requires a good bit more discipline in your datacenter, but, is substantially more efficient.
Hi Owen,
Hot-aisle/cold-aisle is a separate issue from a raised floor plenum. They're mutually supportive but not mutually dependent.
I've never seen anyone do hot asile/cold aisle using raised floor. Overhead cabling has become the norm in most modern installations and once you go to hot aisle/cold aisle, you no longer need the lower plenum, so, while they can be mutually supportive, neither requires the other, and, in practical modern usage, hot-aisle/cold-aisle usually precludes the need for the additional expense of raised floor. Absent the need for the expense of the raised floor, it's rarely installed in my experience, thus making them mutually exclusive for most practical terms. Owen
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:
On Mar 6, 2010, at 2:41 AM, William Herrin wrote:
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:
Not sure about the purpose of a raised floor if it doesn't create a plenum, but, the step forward from raised-floor plenum is hot-aisle/cold-aisle which requires a good bit more discipline in your datacenter, but, is substantially more efficient.
Hi Owen,
Hot-aisle/cold-aisle is a separate issue from a raised floor plenum. They're mutually supportive but not mutually dependent.
I've never seen anyone do hot asile/cold aisle using raised floor.
Hi Owen, Switch & Data in Vienna VA does it that way, as do parts of Equinix in Ashburn VA. As often as not it's a retrofit where the raised floor was already in place. Even if you're not, though, the heat-density in the modern data center is simply too high to prevent the warm air from the prior cabinet from entering the top of the next cabinet unless you either generate a minor hurricane through the floor or use a hot-aisle/cold-aisle design so that nobody's breathing the other guy's warm air.
Overhead cabling has become the norm in most modern installations and once you go to hot aisle/cold aisle, you no longer need the lower plenum, so, while they can be mutually supportive, neither requires the other, and, in practical modern usage, hot-aisle/cold-aisle usually precludes the need for the additional expense of raised floor.
The ductwork for hot aisle cold air can get in the way of access to your wiring, especially in a large room. A raised floor obviates the need for ductwork. In general, though, I agree with you: if you don't already have raised floor it isn't worth the additional expense, at least not in the data center. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William D. Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. ...................... Web: <http://bill.herrin.us/> Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
On Sat, Mar 06, 2010 at 02:54:42AM +0800, Owen DeLong wrote:
On Mar 6, 2010, at 2:41 AM, William Herrin wrote:
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:
Not sure about the purpose of a raised floor if it doesn't create a plenum, but, the step forward from raised-floor plenum is hot-aisle/cold-aisle which requires a good bit more discipline in your datacenter, but, is substantially more efficient.
Hi Owen,
Hot-aisle/cold-aisle is a separate issue from a raised floor plenum. They're mutually supportive but not mutually dependent.
I've never seen anyone do hot asile/cold aisle using raised floor.
Overhead cabling has become the norm in most modern installations and once you go to hot aisle/cold aisle, you no longer need the lower plenum, so, while they can be mutually supportive, neither requires the other, and, in practical modern usage, hot-aisle/cold-aisle usually precludes the need for the additional expense of raised floor.
Absent the need for the expense of the raised floor, it's rarely installed in my experience, thus making them mutually exclusive for most practical terms.
Owen
Actually, my experience has been that most of the newer installations (last 5-7 years) that I have been able to see where raised floor is employed are also doing hot/cold rows. -Wayne --- Wayne Bouchard web@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Wayne E. Bouchard <web@typo.org> wrote:
Actually, my experience has been that most of the newer installations (last 5-7 years) that I have been able to see where raised floor is employed are also doing hot/cold rows.
We have/are building new datacenters with a raised floor plenum. Air is directed into the racks from below, and ducted out of the top. No hot/cold aisle, just lots of cold air to cool the equipment. It's an AFCO rack design. Seems to be efficient so far. -- Tim:>
participants (9)
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acv -
david raistrick -
Dorn Hetzel -
Jason Gurtz -
Owen DeLong -
Ryan Spott -
Tim Durack -
Wayne E. Bouchard -
William Herrin