Re: What to do when your ISP off-shores tech support
In socal switch to dslextreme ------Original Message------ From: Jay Hennigan To: Matthew Black Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: What to do when your ISP off-shores tech support Sent: Dec 24, 2008 09:43 Matthew Black wrote:
I've had difficulties reaching anyone with a brain at my DSL provider Verizon California.
Switch to a local ISP with local tech support. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
Cox Communications has fully on-shore support. Here in SD they are actually LOCAL. Their TS staff are responsive and courteous. I only wish their network were more reliable. (They're better than SBC in my experience, however.)
-----Original Message----- From: chaim.rieger@gmail.com [mailto:chaim.rieger@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 9:47 AM To: Jay Hennigan; Matthew Black Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: What to do when your ISP off-shores tech support
In socal switch to dslextreme
------Original Message------ From: Jay Hennigan To: Matthew Black Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: What to do when your ISP off-shores tech support Sent: Dec 24, 2008 09:43
Matthew Black wrote:
I've had difficulties reaching anyone with a brain at my DSL provider Verizon California.
Switch to a local ISP with local tech support.
-- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:51:41 -0800 "Tomas L. Byrnes" <tomb@byrneit.net> wrote:
Cox Communications has fully on-shore support. Here in SD they are actually LOCAL.
Their TS staff are responsive and courteous. I only wish their network were more reliable. (They're better than SBC in my experience, however.)
In Verizon land, residential customers do not have CLEC voice or DSL alternatives. We do not have Cox. Our area is served by Charter Communications who has the broadband cable monopoly. Verizon has the fiber monopoly with their FIOS. AT&T fiber is not possible in Verizon land. Nobody competes against Verizon for residential service in Southern California. However, Charter cable customers can get dial tone and data services. matthew black e-mail postmaster bargaining unit 9 representative csueu chapter 315 network services BH-188 california state university, long beach 1250 bellflower boulevard long beach, ca 90840-0101 work phone: 562-985-5144
Matthew Black wrote:
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:51:41 -0800 "Tomas L. Byrnes" <tomb@byrneit.net> wrote:
Cox Communications has fully on-shore support. Here in SD they are actually LOCAL.
In Verizon land, residential customers do not have CLEC voice or DSL alternatives. We do not have Cox. Our area is served by Charter Communications who has the broadband cable monopoly. Verizon has the fiber monopoly with their FIOS. AT&T fiber is not possible in Verizon land. Nobody competes against Verizon for residential service in Southern California.
Sir, both COVAD and DSLExtreme beg to differ. Seriously. I just checked. -- The histories of mankind are histories only of the higher classes. Thomas Malthus
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:10:33 -0800 Etaoin Shrdlu <shrdlu@deaddrop.org> wrote:
Matthew Black wrote:
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:51:41 -0800 "Tomas L. Byrnes" <tomb@byrneit.net> wrote:
Cox Communications has fully on-shore support. Here in SD they are actually LOCAL.
In Verizon land, residential customers do not have CLEC voice or DSL alternatives. We do not have Cox. Our area is served by Charter Communications who has the broadband cable monopoly. Verizon has the fiber monopoly with their FIOS. AT&T fiber is not possible in Verizon land. Nobody competes against Verizon for residential service in Southern California.
Sir, both COVAD and DSLExtreme beg to differ. Seriously. I just checked.
-- The histories of mankind are histories only of the higher classes.
Thomas Malthus
Going through COVAD's interactive DSL chooser, there are no options for RESIDENTIAL service. <http://covad.com/web/index.html> DSLextreme is charging a higher price than Verizon and I suspect they are simply reselling Verizon's DSL rather than connecting my copper to their network. That's hardly what I consider CLEC service. I could be wrong and would switch if I could. But I don't see them offering voice and that's why I conclude they are reselling Verizon's DSL service. matthew black california state university, long beach
-----Original Message----- From: Matthew Black [mailto:black@csulb.edu] Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 10:32 AM To: Etaoin Shrdlu; nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: What to do when your ISP off-shores tech support
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:10:33 -0800 Etaoin Shrdlu <shrdlu@deaddrop.org> wrote:
Matthew Black wrote:
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:51:41 -0800 "Tomas L. Byrnes" <tomb@byrneit.net> wrote:
Cox Communications has fully on-shore support. Here in SD they are actually LOCAL.
In Verizon land, residential customers do not have CLEC voice or DSL alternatives. We do not have Cox. Our area is served by Charter Communications who has the broadband cable monopoly. Verizon has the fiber monopoly with their FIOS. AT&T fiber is not possible in Verizon land. Nobody competes against Verizon for residential service in Southern California.
Sir, both COVAD and DSLExtreme beg to differ. Seriously. I just checked.
-- The histories of mankind are histories only of the higher classes.
Thomas Malthus
Going through COVAD's interactive DSL chooser, there are no options for RESIDENTIAL service.
<http://covad.com/web/index.html>
DSLextreme is charging a higher price than Verizon and I suspect they are simply reselling Verizon's DSL rather than connecting my copper to their network. That's hardly what I consider CLEC service. I could be wrong and would switch if I could. But I don't see them offering voice and that's why I conclude they are reselling Verizon's DSL service.
matthew black california state university, long beach
They are probably using Verizon for the local loop, but they also <hopefully> have their own DSLAM's and Layer 3 network to transport your data. That would be a good question to ask them. It sounds like you have a price/quality issue going on. Do you want to pay a little more for better service? If price is your main qualifier then you may be stuck vis a vis quality. Mike
Actually the resell sbc primarily. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "Matthew Black" <black@csulb.edu> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:31:42 To: Etaoin Shrdlu<shrdlu@deaddrop.org>; <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: What to do when your ISP off-shores tech support On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:10:33 -0800 Etaoin Shrdlu <shrdlu@deaddrop.org> wrote:
Matthew Black wrote:
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:51:41 -0800 "Tomas L. Byrnes" <tomb@byrneit.net> wrote:
Cox Communications has fully on-shore support. Here in SD they are actually LOCAL.
In Verizon land, residential customers do not have CLEC voice or DSL alternatives. We do not have Cox. Our area is served by Charter Communications who has the broadband cable monopoly. Verizon has the fiber monopoly with their FIOS. AT&T fiber is not possible in Verizon land. Nobody competes against Verizon for residential service in Southern California.
Sir, both COVAD and DSLExtreme beg to differ. Seriously. I just checked.
-- The histories of mankind are histories only of the higher classes.
Thomas Malthus
Going through COVAD's interactive DSL chooser, there are no options for RESIDENTIAL service. <http://covad.com/web/index.html> DSLextreme is charging a higher price than Verizon and I suspect they are simply reselling Verizon's DSL rather than connecting my copper to their network. That's hardly what I consider CLEC service. I could be wrong and would switch if I could. But I don't see them offering voice and that's why I conclude they are reselling Verizon's DSL service. matthew black california state university, long beach
I believe they are using SBC and Verizon's dslams and just have an ATM cloud that touches their routers. Still, I see better throughput from them than I did from SBC. When I had my own RLAN (private DSL network on SBC dslams) I actually got great bandwidth. On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 10:36 AM, <chaim.rieger@gmail.com> wrote:
Actually the resell sbc primarily.
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
-----Original Message----- From: "Matthew Black" <black@csulb.edu>
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:31:42 To: Etaoin Shrdlu<shrdlu@deaddrop.org>; <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: What to do when your ISP off-shores tech support
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:10:33 -0800 Etaoin Shrdlu <shrdlu@deaddrop.org> wrote:
Matthew Black wrote:
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:51:41 -0800 "Tomas L. Byrnes" <tomb@byrneit.net> wrote:
Cox Communications has fully on-shore support. Here in SD they are actually LOCAL.
In Verizon land, residential customers do not have CLEC voice or DSL alternatives. We do not have Cox. Our area is served by Charter Communications who has the broadband cable monopoly. Verizon has the fiber monopoly with their FIOS. AT&T fiber is not possible in Verizon land. Nobody competes against Verizon for residential service in Southern California.
Sir, both COVAD and DSLExtreme beg to differ. Seriously. I just checked.
-- The histories of mankind are histories only of the higher classes.
Thomas Malthus
Going through COVAD's interactive DSL chooser, there are no options for RESIDENTIAL service.
<http://covad.com/web/index.html>
DSLextreme is charging a higher price than Verizon and I suspect they are simply reselling Verizon's DSL rather than connecting my copper to their network. That's hardly what I consider CLEC service. I could be wrong and would switch if I could. But I don't see them offering voice and that's why I conclude they are reselling Verizon's DSL service.
matthew black california state university, long beach
Matthew Black wrote:
Going through COVAD's interactive DSL chooser, there are no options for RESIDENTIAL service.
<http://covad.com/web/index.html>
DSLextreme is charging a higher price than Verizon and I suspect they are simply reselling Verizon's DSL rather than connecting my copper to their network. That's hardly what I consider CLEC service. I could be wrong and would switch if I could. But I don't see them offering voice and that's why I conclude they are reselling Verizon's DSL service.
You get what you pay for (most of the time). Most locals do resell the ILEC service. However, they have more access to the ILEC than you do (bigger customer and all that), and they take over at layer 2. If you think you'll get worse service from a local ISP because they aren't a CLEC, you'd be dead wrong. ~Seth
Matthew Black wrote:
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:10:33 -0800 Etaoin Shrdlu <shrdlu@deaddrop.org> wrote:
Matthew Black wrote:
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:51:41 -0800 "Tomas L. Byrnes" <tomb@byrneit.net> wrote:
Cox Communications has fully on-shore support. Here in SD they are actually LOCAL.
In Verizon land, residential customers do not have CLEC voice or DSL alternatives. We do not have Cox. Our area is served by Charter Communications who has the broadband cable monopoly. Verizon has the fiber monopoly with their FIOS. AT&T fiber is not possible in Verizon land. Nobody competes against Verizon for residential service in Southern California.
Sir, both COVAD and DSLExtreme beg to differ. Seriously. I just checked.
-- The histories of mankind are histories only of the higher classes.
Thomas Malthus
Going through COVAD's interactive DSL chooser, there are no options for RESIDENTIAL service.
<http://covad.com/web/index.html>
DSLextreme is charging a higher price than Verizon and I suspect they are simply reselling Verizon's DSL rather than connecting my copper to their network. That's hardly what I consider CLEC service. I could be wrong and would switch if I could. But I don't see them offering voice and that's why I conclude they are reselling Verizon's DSL service.
matthew black california state university, long beach
voice on landline? drop it..go cellular. I'm totally verizon free. Comcast does my internet and tv and sprint does my three business lines.
On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 1:31 PM, Matthew Black <black@csulb.edu> wrote:
Going through COVAD's interactive DSL chooser, there are no options for RESIDENTIAL service.
So choose "business". In the world of mass-market ISPs, "residential" means "end-user without clue who cares only about price, not service". You actually want business. Yes, you will pay more. You've established that you don't like the service level you receive at the rate you are currently paying.
DSLextreme is charging a higher price than Verizon and I suspect they are simply reselling Verizon's DSL ...
If their customer service/tech support is better, why do you care how they get the packets to your equipment?
I don't see them offering voice and that's why I conclude they are reselling Verizon's DSL service.
Pure speculation on my part, but maybe they just aren't interested in the voice market. -- Ben
Matthew Black wrote:
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:10:33 -0800 Etaoin Shrdlu <shrdlu@deaddrop.org> wrote:
Matthew Black wrote:
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:51:41 -0800 "Tomas L. Byrnes" <tomb@byrneit.net> wrote:
Cox Communications has fully on-shore support. Here in SD they are actually LOCAL.
In Verizon land, residential customers do not have CLEC voice or DSL alternatives. We do not have Cox. Our area is served by Charter Communications who has the broadband cable monopoly. Verizon has the fiber monopoly with their FIOS. AT&T fiber is not possible in Verizon land. Nobody competes against Verizon for residential service in Southern California.
Sir, both COVAD and DSLExtreme beg to differ. Seriously. I just checked.
-- The histories of mankind are histories only of the higher classes.
Thomas Malthus
Going through COVAD's interactive DSL chooser, there are no options for RESIDENTIAL service.
<http://covad.com/web/index.html>
DSLextreme is charging a higher price than Verizon and I suspect they are simply reselling Verizon's DSL rather than connecting my copper to their network. That's hardly what I consider CLEC service. I could be wrong and would switch if I could. But I don't see them offering voice and that's why I conclude they are reselling Verizon's DSL service.
matthew black california state university, long beach
I have 25 DSLExtreme lines along with 3 other providers in businesses all around the SoCal area. The local loop is whatever the telco is, but the network is their own. The service was better a few years ago, but it's still far exceeds what the big telco provides. The DSLX techs know their stuff and only once did I have a tech not believe me. On the last call, the tech asked me if I checked the DSL filters and I told them I had a hole house Selco box at the MPOE and ran a dedicated cat5 wire as the phone like for the DSL modem. The tech understood what I had did. No ATT, SBC, or Verizon tech has ever understood that. For one location, because of the distance, I had to order an IDSL line from Covad (SBC owned the wires). I ran a cat5 drop from MPOE to the office to make the tech's job easier. (yes I use cat5 for phone and everything. Why not?) Well, the install date came, the Covad tech came out and installed it, but left with it not working. So the blame game went on between SBC and Covad for 2 months before a time could be arranged when both could be at the location at the same time. When Covad connects the DSL modem to the pair at the MPOE the modem makes a hissing sound. Covad proclaims the pair is bad. SBC guy says the pair test good. SBC swaps to a new pair, but hissing remains. During this time they are both on hold to the same call center, with their cell phones on speaker. It was the same on hold music so it was sort of like listening in stereo. Both basically sat around for 3 hours on hold until the SBC guy gave up and left. Covad guy's phone battery went dead 10 minutes later. Nobody ever got a tech on the phone. To prove that the hissing noise was causing the problem, Covad guy connected his laptop up and quickly got on the internet. Everything was working fine. I guess nobody checked 3 hours ago and just assumed it didn't work. He tossed me a box with the modem and left. I was left to punch down the phone lines and put the modem in the office. It was then I discovered IDSL has about 130 volts running in the lines. Outch. The IDSL line stopped working 2 years later so I replaced it with an EVDO modem. Been fine since. ATT is worse. I had a DSL guy install the DSL in a vacant abandoned building twice. The business moved down the block, but the ATT guy just went to the old building again and again. it took 4 months for that ATT install.
Sounds like a business opportunity to me. Given any thought to Sprint EV-DO?
-----Original Message----- From: Matthew Black [mailto:black@csulb.edu] Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 10:02 AM To: Tomas L. Byrnes; chaim.rieger@gmail.com; Jay Hennigan Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: What to do when your ISP off-shores tech support
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:51:41 -0800 "Tomas L. Byrnes" <tomb@byrneit.net> wrote:
Cox Communications has fully on-shore support. Here in SD they are actually LOCAL.
Their TS staff are responsive and courteous. I only wish their network were more reliable. (They're better than SBC in my experience, however.)
In Verizon land, residential customers do not have CLEC voice or DSL alternatives. We do not have Cox. Our area is served by Charter Communications who has the broadband cable monopoly. Verizon has the fiber monopoly with their FIOS. AT&T fiber is not possible in Verizon land. Nobody competes against Verizon for residential service in Southern California. However, Charter cable customers can get dial tone and data services.
matthew black e-mail postmaster
bargaining unit 9 representative csueu chapter 315
network services BH-188 california state university, long beach 1250 bellflower boulevard long beach, ca 90840-0101
work phone: 562-985-5144
Tomas L. Byrnes wrote:
Sounds like a business opportunity to me.
Given any thought to Sprint EV-DO?
You can not seriously consider a 3G technology as broadband replacement. It is midband at best, especially because there is no control on contention. Kind regards, Martin List-Petersen Airwire -- Airwire - Ag Nascadh Pobal an Iarthar http://www.airwire.ie Phone: 091-865 968
Hence my positing that there was a business opportunity, for real wireless broadband. He's in Long Beach CA. The Verizon service are in So-Cal is actually many of the most affluent communities. Nollaig Shona Duit!
-----Original Message----- From: Martin List-Petersen [mailto:martin@airwire.ie] Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 11:06 AM To: Tomas L. Byrnes Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: What to do when your ISP off-shores tech support
Tomas L. Byrnes wrote:
Sounds like a business opportunity to me.
Given any thought to Sprint EV-DO?
You can not seriously consider a 3G technology as broadband replacement. It is midband at best, especially because there is no control on contention.
Kind regards, Martin List-Petersen Airwire -- Airwire - Ag Nascadh Pobal an Iarthar http://www.airwire.ie Phone: 091-865 968
participants (11)
-
Ben Scott -
chaim.rieger＠gmail.com -
Eddie -
Etaoin Shrdlu -
Martin List-Petersen -
Matthew Black -
Michael K. Smith - Adhost -
Seth Mattinen -
Tom Hutton -
Tomas L. Byrnes -
William Warren