The managed services they currently offer don't include egress filtering (L3 to L7) on their business customer's networks.

From the discussion here it sounds like that naked pipes, even if properly SWIPed, ought not to be sold, but that all traffic should be checked on the way out. It sounds like a good idea, but I'm guessing few network operators do that for their customer networks, whether that's due to lack of centralization or cost.

Frank -----Original Message----- From: Frank Bulk Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 3:49 PM To: 'nanog@merit.edu' Subject: RE: Abuse procedures... Reality Checks

If they're properly SWIPed why punish the ISP for networks they don't even operate, that obviously belong to their business customers?

How can you tell that they don't operate a network from SWIP records? Seems to me that lots of network operators sell "managed services" to businesses which means that the network operator is the one operating the business customers' networks. Let's face it, the whole SWIP system and whois directory concept was poorly implemented way back in the 1980s and it is completely inadequate on an Internet that is thousands of times larger than it was when SWIP and whois were first developed. How many of you were aware that whois was originally intended to record all users of the ARPAnet from each site so that networking departments could justify the funds they were spending on high-speed 56k frame relay links? --Michael Dillon