cable markers for marine environments
I have a couple of wiring projects coming up on salt water-going vessels and I'm curious as to people's experiences with different types of cable marking products in a high-humidity / salt air / bilge environment None of the markers will be directly exposed to the outside elements, but quite a bit will be running below decks and will have to put up with the bilge. Anyone have any horror stories to share? My preference is for a direct printing system rather than stock card markers. --lyndon
On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 1:41 PM, Lyndon Nerenberg <lyndon@orthanc.ca> wrote:
I have a couple of wiring projects coming up on salt water-going vessels and I'm curious as to people's experiences with different types of cable marking products in a high-humidity / salt air / bilge environment
None of the markers will be directly exposed to the outside elements, but quite a bit will be running below decks and will have to put up with the bilge. Anyone have any horror stories to share?
My preference is for a direct printing system rather than stock card markers.
--lyndon
Data wiring through the *bilge* ??? The naval architect in me is screaming and running in circles at the idea. Everything I've had to run through bilges, which involved power wiring (ugh) and various pipe systems, but not datacom cables, got messed up on the surface by the inevitable sludge of salt water and junk and oil in the bilges. Large painted stencils on pipes seem to survive, as to large printed plastic label tags. Most smaller printed tags like you'd use for circuit ID or wire ID in normal datacom/telco usage delaminated or melted eventually. Is this a temporary or permanent installation? If permanent, think about running anywhere else you can and conduiting and armored cables... -- -george william herbert george.herbert@gmail.com
On Thu, Mar 08, 2012 at 01:41:58PM -0800, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote:
I have a couple of wiring projects coming up on salt water-going vessels and I'm curious as to people's experiences with different types of cable marking products in a high-humidity / salt air / bilge environment
None of the markers will be directly exposed to the outside elements, but quite a bit will be running below decks and will have to put up with the bilge. Anyone have any horror stories to share?
My preference is for a direct printing system rather than stock card markers.
Most durable is probably PVC cable markers of the type found in automation systems and similar; I've used them in live sound which is a very stressful environment. Several manufacturers make these; the resistor colourcode type is really great for quick ID of numeric identifiers. Typical offering: http://www.cablecraft.co.uk/file.php?filename=WebCat-0001002b00040003%2FEasi... If you want to print, Brady has a number of different solutions, of which, at a quick glance, this one looks good: http://www.bradyid.com/bradyid/domino/contentView.do/B7643.html -- Måns, the wannabe automation engineer.
On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 1:41 PM, Lyndon Nerenberg <lyndon@orthanc.ca> wrote:
I have a couple of wiring projects coming up on salt water-going vessels and I'm curious as to people's experiences with different types of cable marking products in a high-humidity / salt air / bilge environment
None of the markers will be directly exposed to the outside elements, but quite a bit will be running below decks and will have to put up with the bilge. Anyone have any horror stories to share?
My preference is for a direct printing system rather than stock card markers.
--lyndon
I have had good results with printed labels covered in clear heatshrink. Awkward, time consuming, and generally annoying, but works, and lasts. Keep the label short, print big, and use marine (glue lined) heatshrink for best waterproofing. The regular stuff can allow seepage and mould growth under the heatshrink in extreme cases. -- http://neon-buddha.net
On 2012-03-08, at 2:01 PM, Jim Richardson wrote:
I have had good results with printed labels covered in clear heatshrink. Awkward, time consuming, and generally annoying, but works, and lasts.
A bit more detail I should have included ... These are pleasure craft, so stuff goes under the deck whether we like it or not. I've been using markable heat shrink, but as Jim says, it's very time consuming and awkward, so I was hoping for something better. I have tried a few of the wrap-around plastic write-on types, but the glue doesn't hold very long in the damp environment. I'm hoping to find a printable plastic wrap-around with a glue that will stick in the damp, as it would let me pre-print everything before the job. --lyndon
Under the circumstances... I would tend to do a two-phase solution. 1. At both ends, above the bilge area, put the most durable printed labels you can find. 2. Both at the ends, and intermittently under the deck, use a coded ID number for each cable using those slip-on crimp-on types (the cablecraft ones someone pointed to a bit upthread). You won't have the full label in the middle, but you can look at any endpoint and get the description and the cable's individual ID tag, and then trace the tag numbers in the bilge. On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Lyndon Nerenberg <lyndon@orthanc.ca> wrote:
On 2012-03-08, at 2:01 PM, Jim Richardson wrote:
I have had good results with printed labels covered in clear heatshrink. Awkward, time consuming, and generally annoying, but works, and lasts.
A bit more detail I should have included ...
These are pleasure craft, so stuff goes under the deck whether we like it or not.
I've been using markable heat shrink, but as Jim says, it's very time consuming and awkward, so I was hoping for something better. I have tried a few of the wrap-around plastic write-on types, but the glue doesn't hold very long in the damp environment.
I'm hoping to find a printable plastic wrap-around with a glue that will stick in the damp, as it would let me pre-print everything before the job.
--lyndon
-- -george william herbert george.herbert@gmail.com
On Mar 8, 2012, at 1:41 PM, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote:
My preference is for a direct printing system rather than stock card markers.
Don't bother. Unless something revolutionary has come out recently, attach-on-to products are the only way to go. In my experience all the labels have to be maintained along with everything else that's in contact with that environment/liquid. Use something plastic, larger is better, and plan to be able to replace them as necessary. Cheers, -j
On 08/03/2012 22:02, James Downs wrote:
Don't bother. Unless something revolutionary has come out recently, attach-on-to products are the only way to go. In my experience all the labels have to be maintained along with everything else that's in contact with that environment/liquid. Use something plastic, larger is better, and plan to be able to replace them as necessary.
yeah, srsly, marine bilges are horrendous environments, with their combination of persistent damp, salt and fuel oils. If it's of any interest, I got a bunch of consumer labels from www.goed-gemerkt.com a couple of years back for labelling baby milk bottles. They were interesting labels because the milk bottles were dumped into the dish-washer on average once every 1-2 days, but the the adhesive only began to detach from the first of them after about ~9 months. Some of them had the original labels 5 years later - I was pretty blown away by this, given what a hostile environment the inside of a dishwasher is. Anyway, they also do a line of printed stainless steel tags: https://www.goedgemerkt.nl/key-id-tags-detail.asp?productid=149 I haven't used these, but depending on the grade of stainless used here, and the type of chain used, they might be exactly what you're looking for. (There's an english translation of the web site too). a delighted previous customer of Goedgemerkt, Nick
Lyndon Nerenberg wrote:
I have a couple of wiring projects coming up on salt water-going vessels and I'm curious as to people's experiences with different types of cable marking products in a high-humidity / salt air / bilge environment
None of the markers will be directly exposed to the outside elements, but quite a bit will be running below decks and will have to put up with the bilge. Anyone have any horror stories to share?
My preference is for a direct printing system rather than stock card markers.
--lyndon
My Rhino labelmaker has printable, tubular, heat shrink cartridges in white and yellow w/black printing. --Michael
participants (7)
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George Herbert -
James Downs -
Jim Richardson -
Lyndon Nerenberg -
Michael Painter -
Måns Nilsson -
Nick Hilliard