IPv6 tunnel for ISP sought
Hello. I looked through the recent archives and didn't see this question addressed, so please excuse me if it has been beaten to death or is considered off-topic. We have a UUnet link and a secondary provider. The secondary provider has no IPv6 facilities. UUnet (er, Verizon Business) has IPv6 clue, but there is an impenetrable wall between the customer and the clue which assures that there will be no IPv6 links or tunnels ever given to customers. We would like to get an IPv6 tunnel to begin limited testing of IPv6 for customers. Is there any IPv6-savvy ISP out there who will give/sell tunnels to other ISPs? Experimentation with SixXS.NET has proven to be problematic, so I'd rather have a more stable and commercial relationship if possible. As you might guess, our IPv6 traffic load is estimated to be between "zero" and "unmeasurably small," but we'd still like to have it hover above the absolute zero mark. Any help/pointers/advice/proposals gratefully solicited. jms -- Joel M Snyder, 1404 East Lind Road, Tucson, AZ, 85719 Senior Partner, Opus One Phone: +1 520 324 0494 jms@Opus1.COM http://www.opus1.com/jms
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 3:44 PM, Joel Snyder <Joel.Snyder@opus1.com> wrote:
We would like to get an IPv6 tunnel to begin limited testing of IPv6 for customers. Is there any IPv6-savvy ISP out there who will give/sell tunnels to other ISPs?
Experimentation with SixXS.NET has proven to be problematic, so I'd rather have a more stable and commercial relationship if possible.
Joel, Give the folks at Hurricane Electric a shot if you haven't already: http://tunnelbroker.net/ Regards, Bill Herrin -- William D. Herrin herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. Web: <http://bill.herrin.us/> Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
On Mar 22, 2008, at 2:44 PM, Joel Snyder wrote:
We would like to get an IPv6 tunnel to begin limited testing of IPv6 for customers. Is there any IPv6-savvy ISP out there who will give/ sell tunnels to other ISPs?
Experimentation with SixXS.NET has proven to be problematic, so I'd rather have a more stable and commercial relationship if possible.
You've got a few options. First, if you're having a problem with SixXS, make sure you let them know. They're good guys there, and their support tends to be faster than some companies we've bought transit from. :) But, you're right, that isn't a commercial service and is more on the "best effort" side of things, instead of the SLA side. There are other services like SixXS that give out tunnels more-or-less automatically (tunnelbroker.net from Hurricane Electric, is the other big one), but that's also pretty much a best effort service. If you're wanting more than an auto-created tunnel, because you want to run BGP or have your own space announced, or someone to yell at when it breaks, you'll probably need to find someone who will treat a tunnel like a customer connection. Hurricane Electric was offering BGP over tunnels at one point, but I don't know if they still are. Sprint made an announcement years ago that they were offering free tunnels with BGP and treated them more or less like customer ports, but I don't know if that's still happening. If your use is really small, we've given some free "tunnels as customers" to a few ISPs, but I don't know if the level of support I'm offering is really what you're looking for either. I don't know that anyone out there right now is doing a "Tunnels for Dollars" kinda situation, because it's so hard to support. If the v4 path between you and the tunnel provider breaks, there's not always anything anyone can do about it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IPv6_tunnel_brokers might be a good place to start. -- Kevin
Kevin Day wrote:
Hurricane Electric was offering BGP over tunnels at one point, but I don't know if they still are. Sprint made an announcement years ago that they were offering free tunnels with BGP and treated them more or less like customer ports, but I don't know if that's still happening. If your use is really small, we've given some free "tunnels as customers" to a few ISPs, but I don't know if the level of support I'm offering is really what you're looking for either.
I can vouch that Sprint is still offering IPv6 with BGP over tunnels. I'm currently announcing my /48 with it, but I don't use it too much beyond testing/playing. I'm still waiting for it to become dual-stack, so if anyone from Sprint is reading this... ;) ~Seth
On Sat, 22 Mar 2008, Kevin Day wrote:
On Mar 22, 2008, at 2:44 PM, Joel Snyder wrote:
We would like to get an IPv6 tunnel to begin limited testing of IPv6 for customers. Is there any IPv6-savvy ISP out there who will give/ sell tunnels to other ISPs?
Experimentation with SixXS.NET has proven to be problematic, so I'd rather have a more stable and commercial relationship if possible.
You've got a few options.
First, if you're having a problem with SixXS, make sure you let them know. They're good guys there, and their support tends to be faster than some companies we've bought transit from. :) But, you're right, that isn't a commercial service and is more on the "best effort" side of things, instead of the SLA side. There are other services like SixXS that give out tunnels more-or-less automatically (tunnelbroker.net from Hurricane Electric, is the other big one), but that's also pretty much a best effort service.
FWIW, we handle the tunnelbroker.net tickets sent to ipv6@he.net the same as customer tickets sent to support@he.net or noc@he.net (same ticket system). We also follow up in the forums: http://tunnelbroker.net/forums Since we provide /48s via a button and the ability to set your reverse DNS servers in the tunnelbroker.net interface, those two sources of traditional support tickets are reduced.
If you're wanting more than an auto-created tunnel, because you want to run BGP or have your own space announced, or someone to yell at when it breaks, you'll probably need to find someone who will treat a tunnel like a customer connection.
In our case: phone support and priority for network engineer attention.
Hurricane Electric was offering BGP over tunnels at one point, but I don't know if they still are. Sprint made an announcement years ago that they were offering free tunnels with BGP and treated them more or less like customer ports, but I don't know if that's still happening.
We review BGP tunnel requests manually to ensure that request came from somebody at the actual AS owner. We setup tunnels with BGP using specific routers in various locations, that are separate from the auto-created tunnels. We are gradually adding geographically disperse BGP tunnel servers to provide closer endpoints for users. When possible Hurricane would prefer to give native IPv6 transit at an exchange we have in common rather than giving IPv6 transit via a tunnel. The vast majority of Hurricane's IPv6 peering is via native sessions.
If your use is really small, we've given some free "tunnels as customers" to a few ISPs, but I don't know if the level of support I'm offering is really what you're looking for either.
I don't know that anyone out there right now is doing a "Tunnels for Dollars" kinda situation, because it's so hard to support.
We do. We have customers with paid commercial IPv6 tunnels. Some companies and organizations can't or don't want to use free service. Paying for service gets phone support, help with custom configurations, engineering attention to your specific use, and a sales rep to deploy more service. Of course we provide and recommend native connectivity for transit connections and colo. Mike. +----------------- H U R R I C A N E - E L E C T R I C -----------------+ | Mike Leber Wholesale IPv4 and IPv6 Transit 510 580 4100 | | Hurricane Electric Web Hosting Colocation AS6939 | | mleber@he.net http://he.net | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Joel Snyder wrote: [..]
Experimentation with SixXS.NET has proven to be problematic,
How so? It is always fun to read that people have 'problems', but it is even funnier then when the person's name isn't even listed in whois.sixxs.net and thus doesn't even have an account, nor am I able to even find a single email from either opus1 or your name, thus I really wonder what things are 'problematic' for you. You might be interested to try this marvelous thing called the World Wide Web, and read http://www.sixxs.net/contact/ and when you have done that, use this great invention called email to contact us, if you still have questions about things, that is why that page is there, clearly people are scared by it and don't dare to ask...
As you might guess, our IPv6 traffic load is estimated to be between "zero" and "unmeasurably small," but we'd still like to have it hover above the absolute zero mark.
Then again, if you are a real ISP, you will have to do what everybody else in the business is doing: - get a block from ARIN (or your favorite local RIR :) http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/dfp/arin/ doesn't list you, thus you might want to start out there - arrange transit - this generally means you are going to pay for bits just like in the IPv4 world. - fix your routers and the rest of your network Though SixXS is there to get people going in using IPv6, it definitely is not meant to support your full business process, if you require that, go pay somebody who can give you their full attention, there are lists in the FAQ with organizations who can do that for you for that purpose. Greets, Jeroen
On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 03:44:14PM -0400, Joel Snyder wrote:
We have a UUnet link and a secondary provider. The secondary provider has no IPv6 facilities. UUnet (er, Verizon Business) has IPv6 clue, but there is an impenetrable wall between the customer and the clue which assures that there will be no IPv6 links or tunnels ever given to customers.
Hi Joel, Most ISPs that are doing IPv6 have contacts outside of the normal support and sales infrastructure for dealing with IPv6 turn up. Sprint, for example, has a different email address that you can hit and get straight to some people that understand what you're asking about. Searching in whois maybe points to ipv6ops@eng.us.uu.net and if that doesn't pan out, someone on ipv6-ops might have a better idea. -- Ross Vandegrift ross@kallisti.us "The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell." --St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37
Joel Snyder wrote:
We would like to get an IPv6 tunnel to begin limited testing of IPv6 for customers. Is there any IPv6-savvy ISP out there who will give/sell tunnels to other ISPs? Are there any EU ISPs doing IPv6 BGP peering/freebie transit-ish via tunnels?
I'm trying to do some testing of IPv6 at the moment, just in case anyone asks me to deploy it in anger at some point in the future. Sadly none of my transit providers will do IPv6, so I'm currently doing my testing using a BGP tunnel to those lovely people at HE. Sadly the latency to destinations on this side of the atlantic is high with packets hopping across to their US tunnel server and back! Thanks, adam.
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, Adam Armstrong wrote:
Joel Snyder wrote:
We would like to get an IPv6 tunnel to begin limited testing of IPv6 for customers. Is there any IPv6-savvy ISP out there who will give/sell tunnels to other ISPs? Are there any EU ISPs doing IPv6 BGP peering/freebie transit-ish via tunnels?
I'm trying to do some testing of IPv6 at the moment, just in case anyone asks me to deploy it in anger at some point in the future. Sadly none of my transit providers will do IPv6, so I'm currently doing my testing using a BGP tunnel to those lovely people at HE. Sadly the latency to destinations on this side of the atlantic is high with packets hopping across to their US tunnel server and back!
We do have tunnel servers in Europe, however our BGP tunnel servers are separate we are in the process of deploying them to Europe. If you don't need BGP, and just need to do some basic testing then one of our regular European tunnel servers will fix your latency concerns. For BGP, we strongly encourage you (or your upstream) to run native with us at one of any of the exchange points we might have in common. We are AS6939. Mike. Exchange Point Connections: NAP Status Speed IPv4 IPv6 --------------- ------- ------- --------------- ------------------------ EQUINIX-ASH UP 10GigE 206.223.115.37 2001:504:0:2::6939:1 EQUINIX-CHI UP 10GigE 206.223.119.37 2001:504:0:4::6939:1 EQUINIX-DAL UP 10GigE 206.223.118.37 2001:504:0:5::6939:1 EQUINIX-LAX UP 10GigE 206.223.123.37 2001:504:0:3::6939:1 EQUINIX-SJC UP 10GigE 206.223.116.37 2001:504:0:1::6939:1 LINX UP 10GigE 195.66.224.21 2001:7f8:4:0::1b1b:1 LoNAP UP GigE 193.203.5.128 2001:7f8:17::1b1b:1 AMS-IX UP 10GigE 195.69.145.150 2001:7f8:1::a500:6939:1 NL-IX UP GigE 193.239.116.14 2001:7f8:13::a500:6939:1 PAIX Palo Alto UP 10GigE 198.32.176.20 2001:504:d::10 PAIX New York UP 10GigE 198.32.118.57 2001:504:f::39 NYIIX UP 10GigE 198.32.160.61 2001:504:1::a500:6939:1 LAIIX UP GigE 198.32.146.50 2001:504:a::a500:6939:1 NYCX UP GigE 198.32.229.22 BIGEAPE UP 100BT 2001:458:26:2::500 SIX UP 10GigE 198.32.180.40 2001:478:180::40 PaNAP UP 10GigE 62.35.254.111 2001:860:0:6::6939:1 DE-CIX UP 10GigE 80.81.192.172 2001:7f8::1b1b:0:1 NOTA UP 10GigE 198.32.124.176 2001:478:124::176 Any2-LAX UP 10GigE 206.223.143.122 2001:504:13:0:0:0:0:1A +----------------- H U R R I C A N E - E L E C T R I C -----------------+ | Mike Leber Wholesale IPv4 and IPv6 Transit 510 580 4100 | | Hurricane Electric Web Hosting Colocation AS6939 | | mleber@he.net http://he.net | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
participants (8)
-
Adam Armstrong -
Jeroen Massar -
Joel Snyder -
Kevin Day -
Mike Leber -
Ross Vandegrift -
Seth Mattinen -
William Herrin